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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: a661205a50b6ecc⋯.png (26.71 KB, 973x819, 139:117, china.png)


To reduce clutter and low-quality threads about China I'm going to start anchoring threads and redirecting to here instead. If the subject is important enough to warrant a separate thread (let's say, a thread discussing maoism) then feel free to do so.

Post last edited at



Jim Watkins is not jap



I understand the course of action Deng took from a rational standpoint but China is clearly not socialist, come on now.


So ahh what the fuck do they even do there? Do they have workplace democracy on any of their industries?


File: 32a2d450163dbf1⋯.png (178.12 KB, 615x614, 615:614, Sovietwages.png)


Nice screenshot. Here's some additional evidence.


File: c4c310e838e7e32⋯.pdf (1005.11 KB, Profit, Accumulation, and ….pdf)

File: 03a85edccf5bdaf⋯.pdf (1.2 MB, battle for chinas past.pdf)

File: 466bf0de9273074⋯.pdf (3.64 MB, china in war and revolutio….pdf)

Alright here is a book called the battle for china's past about the Mao era and the two propaganda machines that are against it. Another book I haven't read yet but want to, and an article about the rate of profit in China as compared to the US and Japan.

Chuang is a good website to read although they don't post too often. I should say I'm also learning Chinese although I started not too long ago so I'm very much a newbie. Even though China is capitalist I still would love to work there.

Also I'm currently watching the film Mardi Gras: Made in China which is very sad so far. I watched A Touch of Sin last weekend, it was pretty good. A Touch of Sin can be pirated but Mardi Gras I could only find on Amazon.

I'm sure this thread will have a lot of BASED XI vs China is capitalist banter. I really don't understand Ismail's stance at all, he plainly admits there is a bourgeoisie, commodity production, labor market, reserve army of labor, private utilities, rich people in the CCP, etc, but still insists they are socialist. The Losurdo article I've seen referenced is literally neo-lib tier bs about markets being necessary for developing, China is in NEP, and a blatantly anti-marxist conception of "political capital" opposed to economic capital. Just because the government leases the land the businesses exploit workers on means its socialist? I don't see the logic.


>>2782282 (me)

Not to mention China's shitty foreign policy going back to the Vietnam war and the absolutely crucial role they play in sustaining global capitalism. Again, even if they are somehow deserving of the label socialist, they are responsible for providing the capitalists with massive amounts of cheap labor which they use for profits and selling cheap shit to placate the masses.

Also, nothing in Antiduhring, Critique of the Gotha Programme, Wages Price and Profit, or any other theory I've read offers a criteria of socialism that China even remotely fits. (Other than Leninist government with commie aesthetics.) Also The Governance of China has no value whatsoever




It has a capitalist economy in many spheres but to talk about “Chinese neoliberalism” as some Western Marxists like David Harvey is just asinine. I would say that China is something beyond even the semi-Georgist total industrial capitalism that Marx theorized as at least a possibility. True, Marx saw measures like state-control over land/rent as a likely necessity for capitalism to develop industrial agriculture to its utmost perfection but on the other hand, China has massive and significant social investment and planning.

There isn’t a Western government that handles investment in that way most OECD countries have 90% of the investment done by private entities. Hence, Michael Roberts points out the uselessness of Keynesianism in the aftermath of post-Keynesian studies showing how investment rather than consumption drives economies. The government can never spend enough, it can never cut enough gibs checks necessary to power an economy out of a dry spell while keeping production and investment in private hands. Quite frankly, the massive success that China has had should lead us to claim that socialism deserves at least some credit for it.

There is no real comparable political economy to what China has in the present world. Even when Keynesians talk about how Keynes “considered” socialized investment in a scattered way it was never more than pure theory. He also praised Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” which would give some indication of where his real theoretical proclivities laid.



I don’t think that China has yet even reached the lower-stage of communism in its most primitive phase but to think that there isn’t an underlying socialist structural element in their economy is just ultra-left dogmatism. China would be more properly called an actual mixed economy instead of the capitalist welfare states that Western economists try to pass off as mixed economies when all the evidence flies in the face of that.


>>2782285 (me again)

So you guys don't have to pick through the book, here are some interesting quotes:

>According to a Chinese official report (Yang Tao 2007), in a couple of years a large number of state-owned enterprises have been transferred to private owners. Many of the enterprise owners are actually state employers holding government managerial and professional positions, and the proportion of this group of enterprise owners rose from 33.8 per cent of the total in 2004 to 67.4 per cent in 2006. This huge transfer of wealth from the state to the private sector, unprecedented in human history and carried through quietly and almost unnoticed, has been largely beneficial to those who hold political power and have connections with the establishment. >According to one report, which claims to be based on official

research done jointly by the Research Office of the State Council, the Research Office of the Central Party School and the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, 90 per cent of the more than 3,000 billionaires in China are the so-called ‘princelings’, sons and daughters of high-ranking party officials (Boxun 2006a).

>When the mode of production is transformed, that is, when the

means of production are no longer publicly owned and when workers are no longer supposed to be the owners of these properties, the relationship between the trade unions and the state then become antagonistic. Deng saw clearly what the problems would be. So in 1980 he ordered the abolition of the Four Big Freedoms. In 1982 when the Chinese Constitution was amended, the clause of the Four Big Freedoms, together with the freedom to strike, was stricken out (Hu 2004).

>During the SARS epidemic the Minister of Health was sacked and a policy of investing more in rural China was declared. To implement this new policy ‘the iron lady’, Vice-Premier Wu Yi, was assigned to act as health minister. Five billion RMB was allocated to implement preventive health measures in rural China. However, all of that money was eventually used in county and urban centres instead. It turned out that rural health clinics and facilities had all been privatized. The Ministry of Health, under Wu Yi, had no idea of how to allocate funding from the central government to private health businesses in rural China.




>>2782282 (all me)

>My research in the Gao Village area in the past two decades and

my recent research in Long Bow Village suggest that many rural

people think that even if China had retained its collective system they would have had the same kind of living standard as they have now.

>Wang Jinhong, who served as the Party Secretary of Long Bow

Village from 1966 to 2003, had no doubt this when I interviewed him

in February 2005. He had built a huge and comfortable two-story

house during the 1980s, but he insisted that he would have done the same if Maoist policies had continued.

>According to one research study in Henan province, some rural

people actually think they could have done even better, and for

everyone. The survey was carried out in a county that had above

average living standards at the time of research in 2000. Among the 200 questionnaires returned (out of 208), only 11 per cent agreed that living standards had gone up a lot since the reforms. In contrast, 55 per cent of the respondents thought that their standards of living had not gone up much, 11.5 per cent felt they had not risen at all, and 22.5 per cent stated that they were worse off since the reforms (Zhuo Yi 2003). Similarly, 41.5 per cent of them stated both that their living standard would have been more or less the same and the societal habits and customs (shehui fenqi) would have been much better if Maoist policies had continued. About 90 per cent of the respondents thought that in terms

of healthcare, agricultural mechanization, irrigation improvement and technical innovation, reform policies have made the situation worse.

>The fact that rural Chinese did not possess this or that consumer

good in the past was not the fault of Mao, they would argue. The fact that they do have them now is not to Deng’s credit either, they would say. Some of these consumer goods were not even invented then. The fact that grain yields are higher now than those during the era of Mao was not because they had no incentive to work hard then, as suggested by economic rationalists. The land yields more now because chemicals are used more extensively and intensively.

>As late as 1982, the then Premier Zhao Ziyang

(1982: 1260) declared that the socialist transformation of rural China into a collective system was necessary and absolutely correct. But a year later in 1983 the CCP issued a command to dismantle the collective system, ordered the rural organizations to change the collectivist name of commune to xiang (township – a term used in pre-1949 China) and distribute land among households even though many were opposed to this. Some resisted the pressure, and there are still around 2,000 villages that have kept the collective system; these include Liu Village and Nanjie in Henan, Huaxi in Jiangsu, Daqiu in Tianjin, Henhe and Doudian in Beijing, Zhouzhuang, Banbidian in Hebei, Honglin in Hubei, Houshi in Dalian, Yankou and Ronggui in Guangdong, Tengtou and Wanhai in Zhejiang

I'm trying to contribute as much as I can to this thread because I think it's a very important subject and is very interesting to me, and I'm genuinely curious what Dengists have to say.



Yeah I definitely don't agree with people who call the PRC a neoliberal hellhole, but these are quantitative differences. The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition, they can use that to undercut Western investors and gain a foothold where there wasn't one before. Same with the credit expansions, when the entire capitalist world goes into crisis, when you have a centralized authority like the CPC which is able to act rationally (unlike western countries which have competing bourgeois interests which stall the government at crucial times) they can respond to crises in a way that lets them come out stronger. Also, yes I agree that there is an underlying element, due to the remnants of the Mao era and the people in the country who are still struggling to advance class struggle.

Also the notion of developing the productive forces is textbook revisionism at best and capitalist roading at worst.


File: ea6a655e45a1c22⋯.jpg (8.72 KB, 225x225, 1:1, PRCpepe.jpg)


>but these are quantitative differences.

I would say they are qualitative as well, of course, China is better off than some pro-Western neo-liberal kleptocratic Third World state but nominal wages are certainly worse than developed countries like Britain and the US that have long-standing neoliberal policy regimes. You brought up the fact that Chinese business-owners lease land from the government, for instance, although it was a popular idea in the 19th century I am not aware of any Western government that owns a major part or a majority of commercially-leased land. Singapore and possibly Hong Kong are the only Western-aligned states that I know of that even come close to the ideal of classical political economy in seeking a capitalist system that seeks to minimize ground-rent.

> The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition,

Hoxha made similar arguments regarding Soviet and Chinese social-imperialism–I think this point broadly holds true.

On the other hand, I think there are aspects of the Leninist theory of Imperialism that maybe questionable. Generally, bank loans are less profitable than industrial enterprise, in fact, Marx defined profit of enterprise as gross-profit minus interest. I've thought many ways about it and a pure economic financial imperialism can exist in this sense.

Although a pure financial imperialism can exist I'm too tired to layout a thought experiment for it here in the main its practical political function is to break down barriers to trade, fdi, and profit expatriation.

A real world example: Germany only has one international bank of any significance (Deutsche Bank) the US government under both Obama and Trump have hit it with fines partially for wrong-doing and partially in a shadow trade-war between the two countries. It seems to me that control over currency and sovereign debt are the main weapons of German financial imperialism but these things are mainly tools to ensure big profits to big industrial firms via massive export-drives and not to line the pockets of bankers.

Chinese "imperialism" probably acts in a similar manner. But whether monopoly firms behave and operate in the way that Lenin theorized is unclear–Marx and Engels themselves are astonishingly vague on this point. Likewise, it isn't clear that small firms/medium firms are innocent of the charge of imperialism but I'm a bit too tired to get into that.

Lenin's empirical case was actually quite good in his time: https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Graduate-Center/PDF/Centers/LIS/imperialism_forcirculation_3.pdf

But, what parts still apply is unclear. The biggest financial imperialists today (US, Britain) are actually net capital-importers. Third world kleptocrats for instance use the banking systems of both countries to store their ill-gotten gains away from the prying eyes and fingers of their own people. Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described. To my knowledge, China does not behave in this manner on a significant scale. Even the off-shore system in Hong Kong is an artifact of British colonialism still integrated into the British financial "spider-web"

Mainland China, ironically, imports capital from Hong Kong.



>who is codemonkey



codemonkey is asian, but not Japanese, is he? I allways believed he is malaysian bourg kid or something like that


File: d4098a0ea701bf4⋯.jpg (21.61 KB, 315x300, 21:20, tumblr_nb6afkcQry1r47naso1….jpg)

What is socialism and what is Marxism? We were not quite clear about this in the past. Marxism attaches utmost importance to developing the productive forces. We have said that socialism is the primary stage of communism and that at the advanced stage the principle of from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs will be applied. This calls for highly developed productive forces and an overwhelming abundance of material wealth. Therefore, the fundamental task for the socialist stage is to develop the productive forces. The superiority of the socialist system is demonstrated, in the final analysis, by faster and greater development of those forces than under the capitalist system. As they develop, the people's material and cultural life will constantly improve. One of our shortcomings after the founding of the People's Republic was that we didn't pay enough attention to developing the productive forces. Socialism means eliminating poverty. Poverty is not socialism, still less communism.

— Deng Xiaoping, speech discussing Marxist theory at a Central Committee plenum, 30 June 1984



He doesn't explain how socialism is supposed to achieve the development of productive forces, he just says they are developing and calls it socialism. He - and his successors - never bothered to explain the difference of the "primary stage of socialism" and socialism proper, nor did he ever explain if his politics are just another NEP. Everything is see from the Chinese is vague and obsfucating, opens up more questions than answers, maybe deliberately so.



post this in the warsaw pact thread too


File: 88039bc5980e8e7⋯.jpg (180.98 KB, 1018x1200, 509:600, gucci.jpg)

Gucci communism is the way of the future.





>A life sciences institute funded by Coca-Cola and other multinational beverage and snack companies even has offices inside the government’s health ministry



> Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described.

in later marxist historiography of the post-war period (perhaps even earlier, as i'm not well informed) these would be called the comprador class which are natives that cooperate with the imperial countries to siphon off wealth from their country while taking a class for themselves.



Why doesn't China attempt to make any of their own designer brands?



china has tons of knock offs of every thing. A lot of people only pay for the brand, thought. Marketing is everything.



>China bad

>New York Times

>not a single single shred of evidence for the relation they keep claiming exists over 2 pages

>anecdots from U.S. lobbying


File: b286bd8a2736885⋯.png (55.77 KB, 349x437, 349:437, 584be76c9348a282db9585c8.png)

>"Now, the only thing I have managed to keep as a hobby is

reading, which has become my way of life. Reading invigorates my mind, gives

me inspiration and cultivates my moral force." -Xi Jinping

Just wanted to remind you all to read.



Now we know for certain that he isn’t a Maoist







I don't get the joke



Mao has a quote saying reading too much is bad



You guys realize that quote is terribly taken out of context and it's not really what he meant?


File: 345b94c49679295⋯.png (519.53 KB, 488x516, 122:129, 17f.png)


Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures. China's economy today is much less developed relative to Japan's in 1989. It is not easy to compare economies over different periods of time but the best method for me has been to look at per capita GDP (PPP-adjusted) relative to the U.S. In 1989, Japan's per capita GDP was roughly 80% of the U.S. (this would peak two years later at around 85%). In 2015, China's per capita GDP is only roughly one-fifth of the U.S. Even if we ignore the less well-off interior and look at prosperous Guangdong province, its per capita GDP comes out to only around one-third.

If China's economy is less developed than Japan in 1989 how China can overcome USA by today's standarts?



>Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures

But they already did. They're the biggest economy by PPP and on their way to surpass them in nominal GDP. If the US has a crash and China doesn't it could happen within a decade.

The comparison with Japan is nonsensical since China's population is significantly larger. They only need 1/4th of the USA's GDP per capita (nominal) to surpass them.



Furthermore China is very technologically advanced nuclear powered space exploring country. Thank uncle Joe for that.



I forgot mention by nominal but whatever, /leftypol/ respects my personal opinion,right?



This is kind of a known unknown since America seems to be on the verge of shitting the bed.




Have you seen the DOW thread, my nigga?

America IS in the shit rn



Yeah I just mean whether the impact turns out to be 2008 or Great Depression tier remains to be seen. It's not looking good for them though.

I wonder if Trump is such a dumbass that he doesn't realise that the shutdown is going to exacerbate it massively or if he's been told of exactly what's around the corner and intends on going full dictator.


File: 5fc69493a533226⋯.jpg (132.13 KB, 595x335, 119:67, 302b7b95632ac0058444096be8….jpg)


As per Marx: (From German Ideology)

>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.

China is socialist not because it's some sort of classless utopia, but because it's policies - mainly in the field of economic autarchy, and elevating the living standards of the Chinese people - are vital to abolishing the present state of things.

Without advanced productive forces able to satisfy local demand it's impossible to abolish the key force underlying capitalism; commodity production.

This is in contrast to reactionary states like Russia, the US, the EU, etc. and - nowadays - Brazil which have vested interests in reinforcing the existing global system of economic specialization, finance capital and the exploitation of surplus value. Likewise, each of those states have (With the exception of Brazil until now) - in recent years - handed over control of their respective economies to oligarchs and other capitalist interests, often under the guise of austerity. With detrimental effects to the workers in those countries.

Contrast this to China where the Communist Party not only continues to control the commanding heights of the economy, but has actually expanded this control in recent years. All while livings standards continue to soar, and income inequality (both regional and between rural and urban regions) continues to decrease,

That said, I'm not arguing that everything the CPC does is socialist, or that there is no class conflict and corruption, or that they're somehow altruists and not acting in their own class interests as nomenklatura.


GDP per capita isn't everything. China's economy today has already surpassed Japan (1989) in terms of raw industrial output and infrastructure.

China has extreme unequal development, in that it's coastal regions are roughly on par with the rest of East Asia (bar pollution), but it's rural regions are lagging - sometimes decades - behind the rest of the country.


Do anyone here learn Mandarin?

I have 憂鬱 btw


>actually looking up to China

Is this supposed to be a comedy?



Where we should look up to? R*java?



If everything is shit, then it's shit. You aren't going with this "oh, maybe this one is a bit less shitty" mentality.




but I just started recently



We shouldn't 'look up' to anything or anyone. Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions. It is what we must all do after the revolution. Socialism in the US would look very different to socialism in Uganda, for example. Rojäva is a great case study and we can see what works and what doesn't, but it doesn't need to be a guide in any sense of the word.


rojava is a great case study in how to carve out a kurdish zion in syria with the aid of the US. it isn't socialist at all

china should in fact be looked up to for opposing imperialism and pulling millions of people out of poverty



>if the US has a crash and China doesn't

Literally not possible with global supply chains


File: b81c06b1fe8ed2f⋯.jpg (1.93 MB, 4002x3024, 667:504, IMG_20181223_092926.jpg)

File: b68aeeda2c9d618⋯.jpg (640.5 KB, 2048x1438, 1024:719, IMG_20181023_123346.jpg)

File: 36ef7c225f96105⋯.jpg (123.98 KB, 1024x683, 1024:683, IMG_20181120_180207.jpg)


Revolutionary People's Wars my man



China is an authoritarian commie shithole with concentration camps and no free speech




>China past 1976



File: 704c2017ac68c35⋯.png (110.35 KB, 340x271, 340:271, smug.png)


>the USSR's government was made by Stalin



wow what a useless article that doesn't say anything



Open the pdf, it's 30 pages you dumbo



>Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions

> Rojäva is a great case study

Cant tell you are serious or not






bump to remind people to stop making separate chinese threads




They think the guy who let Vietnam become communist would stop china from doing so?


I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production in socialist states.



It's more than just commodity production, the point of socialism is that labor isn't a commodity and production is done according to need instead of exchange. If China's commodity production was limited to shit like video games then it wouldn't matter, but it isn't limited. I guess its the problem of a quantitative change becoming a qualitative one - some people think the commanding heights meme and one party rule means they are still socialist



This. That dwarf is a prime example of reactionary revisionism


File: 770c0630f846a3a⋯.jpg (36.32 KB, 678x537, 226:179, 45404784112341354120.JPG)


>we will not do to chairman Mao what Krushchev did to Stalin

Right. Instead of talking down on him he and his friends fell for the exact sugar coated bullets Mao warned china about and completely abandoned even the tiniest socialist policies and went full fascist instead. They "honor" Mao by doing the exact oposite of what he and communists wanted but without blaming him for anything to keep themselves legitimate


File: 028a286a6661e9a⋯.jpg (37.16 KB, 620x413, 620:413, He-Jiankui-752233.jpg)

Chinese Scientist May Face Death Penalty in China for Gene-Editing Babies







>The scientist who edited the genes of embryos implanted in a patient via IVF treatment and reportedly created the world’s first genetically edited babies could face the death penalty in China, his colleagues have warned. He Jiankui was placed under investigation after he released videos, claiming to have used gene-editing technology for seven couples in fertility treatments to provide their children with genetic resistance to HIV infection.

>The Chinese researcher, who used to be an Associate Professor at Southern University of Science and Technology, in Shenzhen, used CRISPR gene-editing technology to modify live embryos. The procedure allegedly modified the CCR5 gene in such a way as to potentially make the offspring resistant to HIV. Instead of destroying the embryos, per research guidelines in China, He Jiankui and associates planted the embryos in surrogate mothers and allowed the pregnancy to follow through, resulting in the birth of twin baby girls. The birth has not been independently confirmed or documented in a peer-reviewed journal, but respectable researchers with access to some of He’s work say in all probability the work was carried through

>He could face both corruption and bribery charges which carry the death penalty in China. Reports say he is being guarded at a state-owned apartment in Shenzhen. After his claims last November, the Chinese government moved in and stopped his research, but not until his patient had given birth to twin girls, Lulu and Nana.



So what is the primary reason China is against this? Circumventing ethics or spooked out their mind?



Designer babies made by the rich



I still think Dengoids should be decapitated btw




Communists with Dengoid characteristics*


File: 801ee586d27972c⋯.png (2.51 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, ClipboardImage.png)

A new law aims to stop the booing of China’s national anthem

>“ARISE! ARISE! ARISE! Millions of hearts with one mind,” go the lyrics of China’s national anthem, “The March of the Volunteers”. Yet many people in Hong Kong are not of one mind with China’s government. The territory has been a part of China since Britain handed over the former colony in 1997. But its football fans routinely boo and turn their backs when the Chinese anthem is played. At pro-democracy protests, a few people sometimes even wave the British colonial flag. Some youngsters are also beginning to demand greater independence from China.

>The Communist Party in Beijing has responded as it always does when confronted: by flexing its muscles. It engineered the expulsion of six localists from Legco. It cheered the local government’s decision last year to ban a pro-independence group and expel a British journalist who had had the temerity to invite the group’s leader to speak at an event. Now, at the party’s behest, Hong Kong is preparing to introduce a law that would punish those who deliberately insult the national anthem with up to three years in jail and a stiff fine (see article).


what do you think? should the CPC being doing stuff like this?






Good Night Sparrow Pride



This is just a rewriting of another article it refers to (The Economists does this a lot I've noticed) which states (with no sources) that this law will be voted on on the 23rd. I'll wait until then to decide if it's real or not.

Does anyone else think it's suspicious how the muslim camps stories have toned down?



More imperialist astroturfed "protesting" against the lawful Chinese government.



get these 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧george soros🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 paid actors what they deserve

>inb4 replies not getting the joke


File: 8c767cd388a7290⋯.png (1.93 MB, 1334x750, 667:375, C85C9074-298C-44A2-905E-EE….png)


Mfw. People in Hong Kong had less democratic rights under the Crown then under the current PRC’s control.


At this point. China must revive its Confucian, meritocratic values, otherwise consumerism and selfishness will continue to take hold.

Sadly, thanks to the Cultural Revolution and individualism from the West, selfishness and a lack of moral responsibility has taken over China.



they toned down because nobody gave a shit about a state atheist country enforcing the law lol



they're still pretty confucian though



Confucianism is reactionary garbage. Also the Cultural Revolution was a good thing that should not only be praised but replicated in future socialist revolutions.



we shouldnt have to look backwards for a viable social arrangement. It's like saying Europe should go back to Christianity.


It clearly said he violated research ethics, I guess it's just a breach they take very seriously since they let actual humans get born.


I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production ftfy


>freeze peach

'freedom of speech just watch what you say'




Hong Kongoids are the Gusanos of the East


They already have

The average Chinese citizens income has much more purchasing power (Much more important then the straight up amount of money each earns) then an American citizens at this point


File: 38d8120227271fd⋯.jpg (29.9 KB, 948x711, 4:3, 38d8120227271fd113223ee99a….jpg)


>China must revive its Confucian … values

Confucianism is superstitious idealism. The Cultural Revolution didn't go far enough imo



Nothing wrong with that. The socialist struggle springs from rational self-interest. Without it, you're left with utopian idealism.




File: ed701d9f0c62e2b⋯.jpg (67.57 KB, 600x450, 4:3, tens-of-thousands-turn-out….jpg)


>gusanos of the east

They are much worse than that.


File: 6b0719b76315d46⋯.pdf (1.51 MB, Rongxing Guo - How the Chi….pdf)

Here is a very comprehensive and fairly recent book on exactly the structure and changes of the Chinese economy. You can see a huge drop off in 1980, which has continued, in the total share of output of SOEs in the economy. Even if SOEs themselves constituted a socialist sector, (which, mind you, the author does believe), then the "socialist" sector is smaller than that of welfare capitalist states. There is a short list in the appendix of the reforms, for any Dengist who wants to say that they just continued what Mao did.




Translations(Via the TSA bitch)

[Golden Lake tonight]

Jinhu County, Huai'an City, Jiangsu Province, has used vaccines that have expired for 6 years for children. Covering the city's 21,000 children under the age of 14.

The parents finally stopped silent and went to the streets to protest. They used to be "staying quietly" and "not talking about state affairs"…

A few special police officers from the Huai'an city, the special police began to hit people.

It is rumored that Li Keqiang went to Jinhu tonight.

[Continuing Events] The fire of the stars can be punished. Under the dictatorship of the CCP, any fire of the stars may ignite the trend of the country. The people of Jinhu County have a fierce conflict with the black dog that came to suppress it. Listen to the angry cry of the masses. At this moment, I sent these tweets with tears…..[Later] At present, Jinhu County has been armed with martial law and the people have been suppressed…



holy fuck this is some next level boot licking



What will happen is that Beijing will decapitate the local officials, let a bunch of new ones take their roles and people will thank them for it. Protest in china is almost directed at local officials, never at the central government or party.



>inb4 people wanting vaccines are actually CIA agents.



The amount of enterprises that are or aren't organised into SOE's does not make or not make a state socialist

What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)



>What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)

So the USA is Socialist?



The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no



>The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no

The USA is already the number one nation. All that needs to done is for someone who is a Commie to seize control of it. The USA has had like 300 years worth of Capital put into it.

You know, the the USN could be cut by 2/3s and no enemy nation invade, the US Marine cut by half and the US Army by 7/8ths and the Airforce by 1/3rd. So amazingly enough, the US military could survive an explicit hardcore, political purge on a massive scale.



I agree the US would likely have a very easy time transitioning to a Socialist economy and (Once Capitalism has lost its global hegemon) Communism

But that Dosent change the fact that the US in its current state has a capitalist economy and a political system entirely dominated by the capitalist class



So in what way are they socialist? Simply because their party says so?



If you're argument is that they have a communist party in charge and therefore increased production must be "building socialism", the last Congress was only 13.42% workers and farmers.



File: b004c19ddf3e8af⋯.pdf (264.72 KB, social composition of chin….pdf)


slightly different figures on page 21 here but the trend is clearly visible



Because the PRC operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism


The article that you linked itself states that the representation of all groups of Chinese society (Including workers and farmers) is increasing in the NPC

It also shows that members of the NPC are still mainly workers and farmers directly and members of the CCP disproving the notion that china is "Governed by oligarchs"



So barely more than 10% is "mainly"? And no the largest demographic that was increasing was party members, which is separate from workers/farmers in that apparently anyone, including Jack Ma, can be one. By that logic, the US Senate is mainly workers and farmers, since Bernie Sanders was a carpenter, and I'm sure you could find at least one other person with a wagie background. Also,

>operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism

Expand on this.





I think Ismail made this point as well, but I'm not really seeing it.

Most people in the People's Congress aren't farmers and workers, and I have yet to see this be the case for local governments.

Now I'm not a Trot, but bureaucrats really do share a different relation to the MoP than workers/farmers, even if they're vital to the operation of the state.

Not that it prevents China from being socialist however.


File: 14efedff23f1b7d⋯.png (555.19 KB, 628x432, 157:108, ClipboardImage.png)


>According to a report published by the Peking University Marxist Society, canteen staff work up to 14 hours a day, six days a week, with one day off taken as two half-days. According to the report, they are not paid for all the hours they work, and, in at least three canteens, the majority of workers have no social insurance

>Most of them come from the surrounding provinces and moved to Beijing looking for work. They live in group dormitories underground.

>letter cited the report as an example of the society’s contribution to campus life, and referred to its active support for workers’ rights on campus. As well as canteen staff, the PKU Marxists have supported the construction workers who staged a protest in 2015 to demand unpaid wages. But as they noted, it isn’t only university staff who have to deal with unfair labour conditions: ‘If the situation is like this even within the walls of a university, how ruthless must the outside world appear when its mask of compassion and harmony is removed.’

>A group of fifty Marxist student activists were detained in August after demonstrating in support of migrant workers at the Jasic Technology factory in Shenzhen, where there had been protests when several workers were detained and beaten after campaigning to set up a union independent of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions, which has close ties to the Communist Party and to which all unions must be affiliated. The employees complained of poor working conditions and low wages, which weren’t always paid in full; they also said that the company had not paid the proper amount into their social insurance schemes.

>The PKU Marxist Society in the end succeeded in reregistering for the new semester, but when students formed a group to investigate the disappearance of 22 student activists from five cities over one weekend in mid-November, they were called to a meeting with their parents and told they shouldn’t pursue the matter. Friends tell me there has been a discernible difference in the atmosphere on campus since, and security has increased.

>The crackdown on migrant workers and their student allies is not surprising. The China Labour Bulletin, a labour rights organisation based in Hong Kong, lists nearly three thousand instances of collective action taken by workers in China since January 2017.



Theirs literally zero things that make sure that the Chinese officials aren't bought out by the capitalist class, i.e Jack Ma joining the CP and don't transition to communism.



*there's holy shit im illiterate




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File: 2cf763cf53f5a6b⋯.png (78.71 KB, 246x278, 123:139, 1534720770638.png)

Why does it seem China trying so hard to undermine European imperialism/capitalism in Africa while ignoring American imperialism in Latin America? Seems like disrupting American super profit extraction should be a higher priority.





>According to the Peking Unoversity Marxist society


Ultra-group acting as unwitting pawns of imperialism



>Hurr durr you can't criticise anything from a marxist perspective if they carry a red flag



You can critique without acting as a blatant tool of Imperial interests in advocating the destruction of the Marxist party



Well, in my country there is a lot of chinese «investment». In mines,mines and also mines.Our biggest buyer of commodities is PRC and if they slow down…we crash. So much that the pro-market president that was deposed didn't go to USA first like a good vassal,but China.



>all who oppose the dengist hellscape are imperialists


How muslims are treated in China?

Is it really that bad or just propaganda?



Muslims are treated fine.

Uiggers are currently in gulags but let's remember how nice gulags were



Emotional arguement




There is literally no evidence of the "Muh millions of Chinese Muslims thrown into concentration camps" shit


China is doing social imperialism but there is also a lot of western backed fundamentalists.

Are there any leftist uyghur anti-imperialists?


Happy Lunar new year!


File: 05af550fb71f38d⋯.jpg (69.04 KB, 270x295, 54:59, quote_Feb_2.jpg)



>Socialism with """""Chinese Characteristics"""""


China must reject the capitalist practice of producing shoddy disposable goods, which is wasteful and a disservice to consumers. They should build only for optimal product lifetime, and consider it a form of economic development.



China is a developing country that had 750 million people living in below the international poverty line and over 1 billion people below the lower middle income line less than 30 year ago. Those numbers have reduced 99%.



But that would reduce profits


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Is anyone in a maoist org?

what are RCP meetings like?






>what is the pacific ocean

china has pakistan, djibouti, and possibly sri lanka & myanmar in the direction of africa. it has nothing in the other direction



>China will stay committed to advancing reform. Reform is the fundamental driver of China’s development. China will only speed up its market-oriented reforms. We will not slow down the pace of reform, let alone turn back. The Chinese government will continue to streamline administrative approval procedures, provide more efficient services, and slash the time required to start a business, get a permit or go through customs clearance. We will introduce tax cuts on a bigger scale and meaningfully lower fees, including the social security contribution rate. The reform to transform state-owned enterprises (SOEs) into standard companies and joint-stock companies has been basically completed. China’s SOEs, many of which are publicly listed, run their operations in an open and transparent manner. It is entirely up to them to make their own business decisions, and they are responsible for any profits or losses. They do not enjoy any special subsidies.


File: 1d1f585cd63ae1f⋯.jpg (34.24 KB, 720x404, 180:101, willie wonka.jpg)


>Continued efforts will be made to deepen the reform of SOEs and state-owned assets, including mixed-ownership reform in a tiered and category-based manner. Foreign investors are welcome to participate in the reforming and restructuring of Chinese SOEs. We will work for greater transparency in government regulations, ordinances and standards at all levels and higher consistency and predictability in policy execution. A level-playing field will be resolutely enforced. All companies registered in China will receive fair and equal treatment.


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how will /marx/ justify this


Made-in-China diamonds ready to rock global market


>Unlike naturally occurring diamonds, which form over the course of billions of years, synthetic diamonds are made in a matter of weeks.

>Chinese companies have mastered the technologies to manufacture them en masse within a short period of time. The products are practically indistinguishable from those mined from earth.



Lmao, De Beers porkies and African warlords on suicide watch!


Isn't that place polluted to high hell?


I want to believe that comrade Jinping has a master plan up his sleeve, and the current presence of capitalism in china is just a smokescreen.




Can Jin be my wife? thx.

I would also slam the other girl that looks like a dude if she smells nice



If he was it would all but disprove historical materialism.



How so?


File: 3f8631a4ea3c339⋯.png (237.21 KB, 680x460, 34:23, 3f8631a4ea3c3396efb00c8e01….png)


He does. Xi has made it abundantly clear that he intends to honor China's Marxist-Leninist heritage and begin the shift out of the primary stage of socialism. It will all happen in due time. China needs to use state capitalism for the time being to stay alive and develop in this capitalist-dominated world. Once they become the world's largest economy and the US empire collapses they will finally be in the position to spread Marxism-Leninism and expedite the development of nations all over the world.


I just listened to the episodes of David Harvey's podcast about China yesterday and it really made me think that Deng was necessary for China's development. China has achieved unbelievable progress since the reforms. He explained how China solved the unemployment crisis brought about by the financial collapse by investing a shit ton in construction and infrastructure development. He stated that China used more cement in the years following the 2008 economic crisis alone than the United States did in the past century. Now that China's economy is incredibly advanced and developed, they can finally start looking forward to the socialist future they intended to build since the beginning. Harvey mentioned how China is taking technological and scientific advancement very seriously, especially AI. He also pointed out that the point of AI is to reduce and eliminate the need for labor, which seems to imply that China intends to focus on reducing labor in the future. In the next decade or so, China will likely be in the place that the US is in now; writing the rules of the world economy. Once they occupy that place, they'll be able to spread Marxism-Leninism like the US spreads neoliberalism. Despite the resounding success of Deng's reforms, I really do wish they could have been a decent amount more fair to the workers and kept the influence of the NEPmen Porkies down to a more reasonable extent, but Xi is doing that now. Anyway, I really think Mao's dream of China playing its historical role in the development of socialism is going to come true.



>I just listened to the episodes of David Harvey's podcast

link, dumbdumb



I found it through an email from Richard Wolff's organization.


Listen to "The Significance of China in the World Economy" first, and then the more recent one. He gives a good explanation of the rationale and context of Deng's decision to open up China's economy and talks about the remarkable progress China has made since then.



Deng was a plain criminal, he allied with US imperialism and destroyed the Iron Rice Bowl.

David Harvey is a revisionist retard.



t.cia agent



Now hold the fuck on. Wasn't Harvey arguing that Deng was a literal neoliberal in his book about neoliberalism?

I mean not that I expect anything consistent from that confused dude.


I mean, I really wanna believe that China is doing all this stuff with automatisation and labour time reduction to go full socialism but honestly it's a bit idealistic, isn't it? CPC city governeurs built empty apartment buildings for fucks sake to keep their GDP growth up. This housing crisis there contradicts any claim that the CPC cares about material indicators when it comes to growth. Even if Xi is serious about Marxism, it's a dance on the razors edge. What if the next generation after Xi, who is the last generation that got his education in the Mao and early Deng era, will think that socialism is traditional Chinese community values and Han nationalism? Because many Chinese already do that.



Has Xi ever even remotely or faintly try to define what he means by Marxism-Leninism?! Because his book says nothing about it and neither do his speeches. Even the official Chinese party journals don't properly define those terms even in the most basic way.



Deng literally helped the CIA.



The Marx anime is approved by the CPC Propaganda bureaus for promoting Marxism and so far it doesn't neglect any of Marx ideas.

God, I would never think I could use a Chinese anime as a source for this, but I think that it shows to a great extend how Marxist theory is tolerated in China.



I'm not betting on China doing shit for anywhere on Earth other than China's bourgeoisie



Because it would suggest that the political leadership of a country could hold an ideology and protect a set of interests that are incompatible with their mode of production. This may be possible in the short term, as we saw with the Bolsheviks and the NEP, but not for 40 years. Especially when there are plenty of literally bourgeois (as in own businesses and exploit workers) party members, some in positions of leadership or influence. Xi himself is worth hundreds of millions and possibly billions.


File: f233b3e9eb508a3⋯.jpg (112.08 KB, 980x551, 980:551, huawei-5g.jpg)

US pressuring Canada and Germany to ban Huawei


Canada, like several other countries, is considering banning tech giant Huawei amid fears that future 5G networks could be used for spying by Chinese intelligence.

The US and its allies have already shunned Huawei and is pressuring Canada to do the same for security reasons.

At the same time, China is Canada's second largest trading partner after the United States and Beijing has threatened retaliation if the Chinese tech giant is banned.


Washington seeks to enforce its China policy upon its allies, a German industry union head has said in a rare remark. He warned that conceding to Washington’s demand to ban the Chinese giant Huawei would be harmful for Germany.

The US wants its allies in Europe and elsewhere to ban Huawei from taking part in developing the latest generation of 5G mobile networks on their territories.

The US might “be tempted to use its economic might to enforce its own sanctions on others,” Kempf said, adding that the approach contradicts the very idea of “free, rules-based international trade,” which Europe cherishes.


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>forcing western states to buy overpriced shitty hardware just to stave off the inevitable for a few years



I wish i know what its really all about.

Obviously the spying thin is just an excuse otherwise the US wouldn't be trying so hard to enforce a ban everywhere.

Seems like some sort of bully move Trump likes to do. But what for?



Uh, did the CNN say that (chinese politician) is an ebill billionare?



It's about technological superiority: it is the 21st century equivalent of banning musket exports to African states.



The intelligence agencies are lazy fucks. Letting Chinese tech-coms company spread across the world (or any other non-US controlled) make it harder for them to spy, and control foreign flow of information. They can't just ask the CEO of Huawei to put backdoor in their products like they do with Western companies. They aren't exactly lying when they say that it's for US defence, if the US offensive capacity against your country are limited, you're being a danger to their hegemony.


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Reddit is going fucking apeshit with anti-chinese bashing because a chinese company invested on their platform, and that apparently means Reddit is supporting chinsese sensorship or something, so better start screeching about Tiananmen, Tibet and Taiwan.

Could also be a deliberate propaganda campaing considering how easy their shitty site is to manipulate. Considering the lies around Huawei and the chinese muslims currently being used to stir anti-China sentiment in the west it's not that far-fetched.




All the articles we're reading now are just the tip of the iceberg. Best brace yourself for the impending cringe of the Third Red Scare.



>Falun Gong




The anti-China xenophobia on Reddit is absolutely insane. Reddit is such a fucking fascist website.



Yeah it's fucking stupid. Called someone out the other day in the breadtube sub for not having a fucking clue what he was talking about, he admitted it, but still got upvoted because they're all retards and liked the sound of his nonsense.



What irks me the most is the stuff about Taiwan, most of the comments seem oblivious to the fact that the conflict between PRC and ROC is not about about a country named Taiwan wanting indepence from PRC, but both claiming to be the legitimate goverment of all of China. Its like they pretend to be experts on the issue when they know nothing about chinese history.



I don't really see much about Taiwan tbh, just a load of moronic identitarians crying about muh brocialists no matter how unrelated. Some sperg was trying to pin the antics of their retarded radlib comrades wrt AngieSpeaks on the eternal brocialist yesterday - OBSESSED.

Worst are the people that get BTFO and downvote you the moment you've stumped them. Go read a book you little faggot. This is why leftypol was superior because people would get bullied for being total brainlets and other brainlets had no way to back them up if you'd stumped them too.

Sad that I'm pretty dumb by leftypol standards but smarter than like 95% of leftyreddit.


File: d394c33760ac547⋯.jpg (149.73 KB, 1080x699, 360:233, img_20180919_0858371.jpg)


>muh "occupation" of Tibet

Under the seventeen point agreement of 1951, the Tibetan government actually remained in place under China. The aristocracy launched an imperialist backed revolt in 1959 in an attempt to preserve the system forever. After this, the Tibetan government was declared illegal and fully annexed by China, bringing about the end of feudalism, serfdom and theocracy in the region. Serfs were burning their feudal contracts and dancing in the streets.

Tibet was freed with the aid of the People's Liberation Army.


File: 09a1a44024d3abf⋯.png (102.79 KB, 415x361, 415:361, mao swimming.png)


based and redpilled


You guys are on to something here. Bees portal from our nationally owned media firm are running a small, but first page article about Chinese spies in Brussels (Brussels is crawling with Chinese and Russian spies is the title).






I was talking more about reddit morons in general not just breadtube



"Breadtube" is the most cringe shit ever though, it's people like Peter Coffin, NonCompete or ThoughtSlime - all absolutely unbearable!

I mean I'm a Maoist but I'd never join into this radlib propaganda about China or call it a "Hitlerite" dictatorship like some Maoists do on Twitter.



ThoughtSlime annoys me on the basis his shitty talking character is CalArts reject tier but there's like two frames of animation, his voice is annoying too. Not tried anything else, but breadtube just seems to be total shit in general.

Honestly I think I just hate the internet in general at this point.



I'm listing some good subs, and channels, that aren't sectarian(all approaches are flawed)/LARPish, or liberal (polite sage, as this derails the thread a bit)



Philosophy Tube


Three Arrows (Criminally underrated)


Finnish Bolshevik




I apologize if this gets a bit text wallish, but I need to get this off my back.

We all agree the D.S.A is fucking stupid, and has colonized Chapotraphouse. But identity politics is not bad, per se (think Rainbow coalition). We need to draw a line (i.e find a correct term) between liberal idpol, and uniting the working class, under one banner, yet acknowledging capitalism's tendency to make excuses for exploitation.



When you try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to-



No, reality says that. Nobody is even trying to deny it.



Man bad mouse really looks like a man now. I remember when he looked like a skinny teen twink. Is this what taking the ☭TANKIE☭ pill does to the male body?



Like Chavez family has billions? And Kim family eating human flesh?


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Mao was right again:

>Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.



These people unironically parrot cartoonish propaganda. Imagine thinking that the Chinese drove over defenseless crowds of civilians with tanks and turned them into "meat pie" and hosed the remains down the drains, this inbetween murdering mothers clutching their infants and bayonetting teenagers. Imagine reading that sentence and accepting it as fact without thinking even twice about it.

America is hopeless tbh.



There still is the liberal/socdem party in Taiwan that opposes the KMT and advocates more independence.


File: d3762bc9482c75b⋯.jpg (86.24 KB, 599x399, 599:399, 1.JPG)


unironic oriental scientologist cult sucked off by western liberals



>anti-modern medicine

rational wiki has a whole list



Russia was a shithole up until the 90's. Gorbachev thought the supermarkets in America were dressed up to be so full of food. Find someone who lived through the communist bullshit and ask them how the food lines were, how empty the stores were. Get first hand knowledge and then think critically about how Socialism works.

Oh, and fuck commie China. Look at the four pests campaign and see what happens when someone is given total power with zero knowledge.

Everything that China has was stolen from another or given to them. There is no discovery or creativity left in the Chinese soul.




Poor peasants owning centrally heated apartments, having electricity, radios, television sets, seeing toilets and bath tubs for the first time in their lives. Those evil commies.



Actually swerdy throwing out a sizeable portion of what's produced because it's gone out of date is GOOD ACHERLALLY



I hope the PRC shuts reddit down.





That wasn't Gorby that was Yeltsin you dolts...



>Russia was a shithole up until the 90's

Yeah when everyone started dying.



> Gorbachev [sic] thought the supermarkets in America were dressed up to be so full of food.

I mean they basically are? A great deal of that food is thrown out everyday.



Yeah, and it makes the story all the more suspect. Yeltsin obviously sold out the whole economy with glee, and his daughter is very wealthy and if not a billionaire herself at least married into billions. I don't doubt he said some dumb shit in a grocery store, but the notion that he was shocked by what he saw is ridiculous. It's not like Boris Yeltsin had literally never seen, heard of or read about the living conditions of western capitalists nations. He could watch a fucking movie and see a grocery store. He was obviously playing up his astonishment with a random Texas grocery store to ingratiate himself with an American audience.


File: 84f782c67448141⋯.gif (37.82 KB, 952x565, 952:565, Soviet_Union_GDP_per_capit….gif)



Modern day Russia has gone seventy ranks down in per capita calorie consumption compared to soviet times.



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How can you honestly look at the ISIS tier garbage that happened and say the cultural revolution was a good thing? This is why nobody takes maotists seriously.





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File: f760cf52c2b6647⋯.jpeg (28.52 KB, 435x324, 145:108, F2749AA6-2F15-45B2-93E8-2….jpeg)


ChINa iS StilL sOciALisT


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Pic related is getting harder and harder.


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>Find someone who lived through the communist bullshit

why do libs always say this?

In high school I was an exchange student in a former soviet country and the consensus in my guest family was that it was better. Dad liked being able to go around eastern europe and travel the river don with his army buddies for free. Grandma was a teacher and hates what has become of education. I could go on.

In any event this meme of

>hurr talk to someone from the commie countries… t-they'll set you straight

is such garbage



It was a shithole after 90 fam. Gnp reached 80s status only after 2010. Tens of millions died due to drugs, alchoholism. Crime went out of proportion.

If u had money saved to buy a new car in beginning of 89, that money was worth 2 loafs of bred at the end of the year.

There was a total deterioration of the health system. If you had to go to hospital you had to bring your own syringes, drugs and other medical supplies and equipment. Also you had to pay the doctors in cash because noone was receiving any salaries.

School teachers stopped receiving salaries and parents had to bring cash to schools to pay them for their work.

All public infrastructure went to shit because there was noone maintaining it. The country was worse of than after the civil war in 1924.



Slow your roll there. I've talked to the people personally that lived through it and the consensus was that Communism was the worst thing that has ever happened in their respective country. And this was of last week, not when you were a kid. So yeah, it is a valid argument.

(no, it isn't.)


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yeah and so have i, and they all have positive views. so do the majority of Russians, Czechs, Hungarians, etc. according to various referendums and polls. the Soviet Union alone had a population of nearly 300 million people, a few gusano types or people who were barely teens during the Gorbachev era aren't enough for me to believe that everyone single person who lived during socialism hated it, especially considering the positive view that most of those hold of it.



also worth mentioning that anyone can make up a story to support their view point. you can say "yes i have talked to many people who say gommunism was the worst thing ever" (funny how in all these anecdotes you anti-communists never provide any information like how old they were when socialism fell in their country, it's always just "this person i totally know said communism killed his whole family and he could never buy *insert x good and/or service* trust me) just as much as i could say "my dad grew up in the USSR and he said literally everything about it was perfect". it doesn't make it true, so unless you can provide some statistical evidence that shows most people have a negative view of socialism in their respective countries you're really not proving anything.



lol I buy bottles of wine with Stalin's face on it from an old Armenian dude who definitely lived through.



Lol, clearly you've never ever met a person from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. Now stop lying.



>gdp per capita

isle of man global superpower 2020


File: aadd1509bec1cee⋯.pdf (40.21 KB, CIA-RDP84B00274R0003001500….pdf)


>meanwhile in the real world





Guys, what is going on in Xinjiang and Urumqi?

Is it all real or it is just speculation?

Thanks for your attention and for the answers in advance

t.very concerned Muslim





It's text-book US agitprop with no concrete evidence beside testimonies from US founded NGOs.



Fuck muslims though


Do people actually think China is socialist? From my perspective they've realized that state capitalism is the most effective form of capitalism and merely hide behind the politically "communist" state in order to keep the proletariat in check. Am I wrong in this?

I'm not baiting by the way, legitimately curious



Nah, that's right


Comparing China's situation to NEP is plain retarded. NEP permitted foreign investment and market competition between worker-owned enterprises, but private employment was strictly limited and industry wasn't privatized. Meaning that a real bourgeoisie class did not form and when they started rolling it back, the only opposition could come from rural kulaks and small store owners. Meanwhile China has literal billionaires. Even if the CPC decided to construct socialism tomorrow, they'd have to do it through bloody class war (and I doubt there is political will for it). China fucked up, there's no other way about it. It's been 40 years.

-some anons work I stole



Chinese billionates are in the CPC. They simply give away their billions when said



China is imperialist, it’s Germany to America’s UK in 1914.


File: 4ec718eac8c7b69⋯.jpg (101.79 KB, 1108x644, 277:161, WfpJ0EE.jpg)


>implying mad, "Asian work ethic (sucking up), based family fascism", confusionists, are revolutionary in any way

Lao Tzu could have been amazing, if he wasn't spooky as shit, and you should google him.


People calling Chinese investment in Africa neo-colonialism are doing a lot of heavy lifting towards erasing the actual genocidal horror of colonialism.


I read a research paper the other day that was the source of a recently propagandized statistic about how Chinese have positive feelings towards the new social credit *system* (not score), and I was disturbed the massive category error the author had made where they insisted to put Sesame Credit and social credit under the same name.

For those who don't know, Sesame Credit is an opt-in rewards program managed by Alibaba that has no legal basis and cannot punish you in any way, it is simply design to encourage you to use Alibaba services for discounts. It's a shoppers rewards card.

The social credit system is a "system" for transparently and effectively enforcing laws that already exist. So in one famous example, fare evasion on a train can get you banned from riding trains for a certain number of days. You do not lose points on a score, nor do you get punished in other ways. You just get put on the train blacklist. That IS social credit, it is not AI-driven invasive social control, or a technologic panopticon. It's enforcing the rules, which exist for good reasons, and it no wonder Chinese think it's a good idea.

The reason this is problematic is becuase there is no effort by most people tasked with informing USians about China that cares what the social credit system is, instead they come with this one two setup: There is a black mirror-esque score in China, and most Chinese support it. It's incredibly fertile ground for racist theories about the oriental mind to flourish.



This meeting was pretty forcefully denied by Beijing btw.


File: 660ab9515fc27ba⋯.jpg (5.93 MB, 2976x3968, 3:4, IMG_20190124_202200.jpg)


Netflix just released some over-the-top anti-China propaganda with a bunch of falsehoods about various not-banned things being banned, and pictures of xi drenched in a blood red filter while random scary words float across the screen. A Jon Oliver special is coming soon I expect. The topic is going to be either Social Credit or Xinjiang, I'll put money on it.


File: 79e75b637c528a2⋯.jpg (42.51 KB, 700x307, 700:307, joy-luck-club-san-gabriel-….jpg)

have you guys ever read the joy luck club?



Lmao kill yourself



No. I will rather send hem to de-relegionize camp



Are you suggesting that China isn’t extracting profits from its investments in Africa?



I think it’s naive to expect that social credit will simply just be used for mundane shit like train fare. Think about the concept from a Marxist perspective.

>The social credit system is a "system" for transparently and effectively enforcing laws

In other words it’s a tool of law and order, but the proper class analysis begs the question: Whose law? Whose order? China is a bourgeois state, and as such this is bourgeois law and bourgeois order. If you think this won’t be used to undermine organized labour in China, crack down on strikes, on anti-revisionists, and on worker’s movements of all types.



Well I think you hit the nail on the head. It is naive to think that "law" will be used just for train fare. The few people who actually know what social credit is often promote dystopian visions of it because they think all Chinese law is illegitimate, and hate the idea of the enforcement of law becoming more effective. This recent yellow panic has been triggered partly because Chinese regulations in all sectors; in health, labor, food safety, corruption, data privacy and yes, censorship, have started to be seriously enforced. But it's not a score.



that would be imperialism, not colonialism m8.



>How can you honestly look at the ISIS tier garbage that happened and say the cultural revolution was a good thing?

There is nothing wrong with destroying reactionary and bourgeois culture. Reactionary ideology will linger even with changes material conditions. Only vulgar materialists think otherwise. From Mao and Pol Pot to Hoxha, they have all realized the necessity of waging ideological war against remnants of the past.


File: 4653e956ce53c7e⋯.jpg (34.95 KB, 420x420, 1:1, xi jinping pepe.jpg)

File: d6a2f62012fc19e⋯.png (1.51 MB, 1600x1600, 1:1, lesbian socialism with chi….png)



I would say they are quantitative differences, as according to the Chinese government

>China's private sector has made an important contribution to economic growth, head of the country's industry and commerce federation said Tuesday.

>The sector now contributes more than 60 percent of China's GDP growth and brings in over half of China's fiscal revenue

>The private economy is also playing a stronger role in China's job creation and innovation drive by providing over 80 percent of jobs and contributing more than 70 percent of technological innovation and new products in the country, according to Gao.

>He said that last year, more than 90 percent of new jobs were created by private businesses.

>At the end of 2017, there were 65.79 million individually-owned businesses and 27.26 million private enterprises in China, which employed some 340 million people.

Although I just got an email looking for a skype interview for a job there, so idk. If I go there I'll post back in this thread, although of course anecdotal evidence is secondary


People who criticize China solely for it's market economy are ofc totally braindead and ignorant of Marxism. EVERY worker's state will have to undergo a DoTP period where it is forced to interact on the world market, before all it's trade partners too become communist. It is hard to overstate how much the leftcoms & Trots have totally ruined the Western left with this line of thinking for the past 100 years.

With that said, there's no way the CPC didn't have the intention to enrich themselves with the reforms under Deng. They didn't even have to go down the NEP route, they could have just made serious political reforms to ensure millionaires had no way to have seats in government or influence it at all. But there was no political will to keep the party's proletarian character, clearly.


File: fdefcab963f04ea⋯.jpg (76.02 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, peter-joseph-stalin.jpg)



>Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement praises China's state capitalism for its efficiency

>silicone valley STEM labor aristocrats support state capitalism

better than 90s libertarianism



>silicone valley

? he hates them


he supports cybersyn / cybernetic socialism


>labor aristocrats

you couldn't be further off. he despises workerism and thinks all labour must be automated asap. also he believes borders should be abolished. he's even more of an internationalist than you, mr. fourth international flag-bearing trotskyite





> utopianism

ok bud


1989 tiananmen square massacre



thanks deng



someone praising chinese state capitalism for its superior efficiency is now "utopianism"?




The red guards actually harassed Muslims a lot during CR, and there's even official apology



>there's even official apology

That's what happen when you halfass your only job. Let's hope this time no apology will be needed once they are liberated from their feudal superstitions.


File: 08f491957cc35f0⋯.jpeg (290.85 KB, 1240x1754, 620:877, g.jpeg)



Deng also


Can we do Maoist memes thread again?



We need this again






How is He Jiankui doing? I've read that he could end up in the death row.


File: be1fc7119ca9f4b⋯.png (176.96 KB, 375x222, 125:74, 3322129fb47ee6877f1fc365a4….png)


Or as we Dengist call it;

The Culling of Liberals



Computers are STEM. Also this guy is a utopian, which is pure labor aristocratic ideology.


>also he believes borders should be abolished.

>all labor aristocrats are xenophobes

lol no


>The app comes with a Snapchat-like messaging function where messages disappear after being read.


Was good until this part, the app needs to be burned in fire now. You had one job Xi.


File: 00e7d1c150df93e⋯.png (113.09 KB, 600x315, 40:21, 12TTQIZAWSJEbJE7RjMIfdg.png)


>that pic


US "China Watchers" are completely zoinked out now. Many of them just imagining war crimes against China, no context, just threatening to kill millions of Chinese people and warning them they should get ready to be killed. Let me grab an example.


File: 5531fc860836478⋯.png (209.53 KB, 537x641, 537:641, fascism.png)

File: 192623c589837fa⋯.png (181.38 KB, 550x623, 550:623, fascism2.png)


This guy has been advocating for war with China somewhat low-key over Taiwan for years now. A typical sort of white supremacist asia expert who waxes over his gross racism with psudo-scholastic pontificating about oriental despotism. Has just dropped the facade now. Talking about Germany after WWII and the need to bomb China back to the stone age, and this.



Ahem, I mean WWI. This guys bad, though he's not the worst, which is kind of shocking.


File: ce4906b9eb3642d⋯.jpg (62.53 KB, 850x400, 17:8, quote-politics-begin-where….jpg)



Oh shit, the neocons are gonna start WW3

For real, twitter fights between people with under a thousand followers shouldn’t be posted, it’s irrelevant to IRL politics, their is no viewpoint or idea that doesn’t have at least one supporter. This doesn’t matter. What matters is the amount of people who support a position.



What– no. Greer is dismayingly influential among China hawks. These are think tank guys, journalists on the China beat and China "watchers". Elite opinion and media editorial policy is crafted based on the reports they write to each other. What some random senator or bureaucrat official thinks they know about China is delivered to them by these guys. It does NOT matter how popular an opinion is. They are the "elite". The US public did not, and will not in the foreseeable future, vote on (much less be aware of) the development of US foreign policy.


File: 59bff17380833ef⋯.png (114.85 KB, 581x508, 581:508, Screen Shot 2019-02-22 at ….png)


>What– no. Greer is dismayingly influential among China hawks.

Just checked his most recent tweets and the most liked one was 26. The American elite is over a million people large at least when you factor in all the CEOs, board of director members, large stalk holders, military officers, high paid bureaucrats, labor aristocrat STEM professionals, think tank guiros, and high level members of PACs, the RNC, and DNC. The American elite is a very large section of the population percentage wise and in sheer numbers when compared to previous numbers, even those who are just concerned with foreign policy, the neocon think tank members, military officers, and diplomats, this is thousands of people.




this guy has some cataclysmic interpretations of things



I don't know what you don't get. It's not the number of likes on those specific tweets, its that the content of them was the original product of the guy. If 0 or 1000 people like it it wouldn't change what I'm drawing attention to, which is what the us China Watching community believes and curates their presentation of China towards convincing others it is right.




Is there anything worse than nerds on Twitter who take things too seriously? Smh



Yes. American retards that bring up said twitter shit.



Twitter just gives you insight into the careers of think tankers— everything they eventually package into a report is hashed out on Twitter first. I take CSIS and AtlanticCouncil et.al. seriously because I have to. The “elite consensus” on China had been overwhelmed by Hawks in the last two year because of Trump, and the hawks are just advocating for full scale war now.




The zio conspiracy in one line:

Trannification is a deepstate process targeting democratic groups like Freemasons and religious and family-loving groups like Christian churches to corrupt and distort them, to use them as deniable garbage for black ops which are blamed on Freemasons, Freedom tards and true Christians. Done by Occultists. All occultists end up working for the deepstate.

They target those who oppose communism. If you oppose it they will get to you and you won't know it until it's too late. Hypno.

Maybe China is conspiring too


Daily reminder to learn Mandarin so you can defect when WW3 comes


File: b2dc2c3e5685b74⋯.jpg (186.39 KB, 800x449, 800:449, 2-48.jpg)

Is Naomi Wu a prototype for the female socialist with chinese characteristics?


File: d269a18003f08ec⋯.png (390.7 KB, 991x1000, 991:1000, 3b6d89cbd718cdec92cb62c442….png)


File: 745b20f45d3eacb⋯.png (195.86 KB, 1065x774, 355:258, imf_.png)


>most OECD countries have 90% of the investment done by private entities

The private share isn't necessarily that high. The public provides massive subsidy for fundamental R&D in all advanced economies even if the results are ultimately privatized.

Several rich countries also maintain substantial public assets.

Norway goes the furthest and has the majority of non-housing wealth in public hands. Their sovereign wealth fund is the largest in the world, and a nontrivial share of global market cap.



Why not release the tech and have HIV resistance and high Autism Level for all?

Why not have public fertility clinics that allow anyone to have a CRISPR baby with whatever genes they want?



Because I didn't get to choose my genes.


Could be of interest, though quite liberalism



File: 3ba81b06135b9ff⋯.pdf (1.5 MB, SSRN-id2593377.pdf)

Dumping some stuff


File: 44565a7951c3ae7⋯.jpg (257.36 KB, 1000x661, 1000:661, 290b8454c41dd9da58fae83535….jpg)

Will Taiwan or China achieve communism first?


File: 88238bc60ea7c4c⋯.jpg (69.17 KB, 763x566, 763:566, kim-and-xi.jpg)





File: f2e5629e21b74c2⋯.png (252.44 KB, 716x537, 4:3, mio newspaper.png)

Saw some Falun Gong shills on Dam Square today. The billboards they had set up were more anti-CCP propaganda than the bullshit front of meditation and spirituality. In that regard it's surprisingly honest, showing what's behind the mask.

Bourgeois freedom stinks, it means these fascists are able to openly preach their poison. We even have a scientology church right infront of the country's largest college. Atleast our southern neighbours banned scientology for being a cult.


just found out, how cucked Gorillaz are…




Interesting thing is the Epoch Times is a Falun Gong paper, which has some inexplicable connection to Trump. Also China Uncensored on YouTube is them to iirc. They get a ton of funding from Taiwan.



>Implying Taiwan isn't a part of China


File: 5d65dfec8aab817⋯.png (28.34 KB, 265x461, 265:461, china peoples assembly sta….PNG)


Strange how no Dengists will respond to my Chinese source saying how the majority of GDP growth and nearly all new jobs are in the private sector. I'm interested to hear someone explain how this is building socialism when for decades the trend has been towards more privatization, not less. It seems to me like China is not in an extended NEP but stuck in glasnost or something. It's hard to say the government is still a Leninist organization when the standing committee of the people's assembly looks like pic related. Not to mention the apparent lack of criteria for belonging to the CPC itself. For people that think they are capitalist but a dictatorship of the proletariat, how do you explain the coexistence of the CPC with openly bourgeois parties, along with the allowance of someone like Jack Ma in the party? I really don't understand Ismail on this point



Yeah I quickly stumbled upon the Epoch Times and China Uncensored while looking for information on Falun Gong. Just like shills such as Charlie Kirk get big bucks for spreading domestic anti-socialist propaganda, there's a whole network of shady think tanks and societies (a typical article about China or North Korea will mention these aplenty) in Asia that spread imperialist propaganda, you can probably get a better living that way than most workers in SK or Taiwan.


>China has a small KMT party in the People's Assembly

So much for communist repression.

Anyways it seems that unironic dengism has died down but there's still an agreement that we need a more realistic assessment of China than "it's literally Mordor guise muh 100 million no freedom tiananmen"



>Russia was a shithole up until the 90's.





>muh statues

Despookify yourself you idealist cuck



Yes, China has been carrying out several liberalizations but it's not comparable to what Gorbachev did, let alone to the shitshow that Russia became from Yeltsin's rule onwards. They never dogmatically accepted the neoliberal recipes the US and the World Bank tried to shove up their throats. China still maintains a largely state-controlled economy no matter how much external pressure is being put on the country. Of course this isn't socialism, but it is pretty fucking far from a laissez-faire economy too. And for all their failures, the liberalizations did succeed in making China the world's second economy in a tremendously short span of time and pulling millions of Chinese out of poverty - although there's no denying a large-scale purge of the bourgeoisie will be needed if the government ever decides the time is ripe to move on to actual socialism.



Also I don't think the existence of bourgeois parties forms a problem. At least not in a fairly strong country that can defend itself against imperialism. Fair point about rich capitalists in the CPC though.



>"muh food lines" even though there was no food scarcity or major shortage in the later decades of the USSR


>someone who lived through the communist bullshit

do we really need to post the stats of the nostalgia for communism in Eastern Europe once again?

>up until the 90's

this has to be bait, read a book or at least a fucking article



So, since no one ITT has answered this satisfyingly. What's with all the "Muslims in concentration camps" articles? Is there a good reason to believe that these are either true or false (apart from the probability that they're porky propaganda)? When did these articles start? Any reliable sources on this?



Let me just bring it to the point. The whole thing started with the

>China Has Detained Up to 1 Million Uighur Muslims UN report says

hoax published by Bloomberg last year. Bloomberg is often reporting lies and missinformation about China that often get quoted by other U.S papers as legitimate reports without any investigation and it was this Bloomberg report that quickly spread trough the entire U.S. controlled media and beyond starting the whole campaign, slowly adding little lies on top with every iteration of citing each other. Before that there was only noise compared to this. It could so easily spread because they claimed the authority of a UN report to back their story.

The thing is that UN report never existed. Yet you can still hear people cite it all over the world. There was no such UN report. Months later Bloomberg silently corrected some of the false parts to "UN experts said" and added alot of "mays". The entire story is based on what "Gay McDougall" said in an open panel of the UN comittee called CERD when she was speaking on her own behalf and just asking a lot of loaded questions. She didnt talk on behalf of the UN. Nothing she said is part of any official UN report or investigation. She cited a 3rd party report published by the "Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders" (henceforth NCHRD)

Who is Gay McDougall? Gay McDougall is the official representant of the U.S.A. for CERD.

Whats NCHRD? NCHRD is an almost 100% U.S. government fundend "non-government"-organisation based in Washington DC. NCHRD is not a network. It doesnt network. Besides its blog republishing bad stories about China under their "humanitarian" name, its a shady business. Before the Bloomberg, their site was hardly telling what they where even doing and only left a googlemail address for contact. There where only 2 people including the apparent manager known, two people with a nearly 7 digit anual budget. Its clearly just a proxy to whitewash propaganda from questionable sources into "human rights activism". Their entire report is just a compilation of 3rd party reports. On a sidenote that report never even spoke about millions of interned Muslims but refered to reports claiming possibly "up to a million Muslims could be discriminated" in China. Bloomberg invented the "detained up to 1 Million". A few of the citations are from U.S. mainstream media including Bloomberg and NCHRD (you are reading right, they are quoting themself) Nearly all citations come from "Radio Free Asia" (henceforth RFA) or 4th parties citing RFA.

What is RFA? RFA is a news agency founded by the U.S. government. It's also funded by the U.S. government. Was at least, they have done their job and now comes the usual cutting of connections) RFA headquarters are based again in Washington DC. RFA is operated by the Broadcasting Board of Governors (henceforth BBG)

Whats the BBG? The BBG is a US federal agency under the supervision of the State Department. Their own job description is literally to spread propaganda to aid the U.S. regimes policies.



Few corrections.

1) Camps and heightened security definitely exist, however the 1 gorillion is a clear fabrication for the reasons you wrote. A few thousand is justified given the actual history of terrorism in the region.

2) I don't think it was Bloomberg specifically, more like a combo from all the major MSM outlets at once. Bloomberg was 100% responsible for that fake chip hoax (Chinese gov was allegedly planting undetectable chips in servers used widely by Amazon, Apple, etc). News story was never backed up by any major intelligence agency and strongly denied by Apple and the like.

Besides that, this is mostly correct.



I have said in this thread that I don't think it's neoliberal tier, I just don't see much of a difference between the Chinese Dream/ Socialism with Chinese Characteristics and social democracy. (Ironically, every socdem complains about evil totalitarian China, when in reality that's probably the best case scenario for their ideology - incredible sustained growth for decades, massive poverty reduction and rise in living standards, etc.) Like I said, it seems like they are stuck in glasnost - they stopped just short of Yeltsin-tier whereas the Soviet Union continued to full blown liberalization. Also I disagree with

>if the government ever decides the time is ripe to move on to actual socialism

This seems like idealism, putting the superstructure above the base. Which is something I see around often, is people thinking the CPC can just flip a switch and "activate" socialism.


File: defea0a18bd741f⋯.png (247.92 KB, 1772x607, 1772:607, chineseconomy.png)


In 2014 China economy specialist Nicholas Lardy concluded that the private sector now produces at least two-thirds of China’s GDP.


>The central finding of this study is that the economic reform process that began in the late 1970s has transformed China from a state-dominated economy into a predominantly market economy in which private firms have become the major source of economic growth, the sole source of job creation, and the major contributor to China’s still growing role as a global trader.

>pic related from the book



Also from that book:

>China’s government revenue relative to GDP is identical to that of Mexico, 2 percentage points below that of Malaysia, and 5 percentage points below that of South Africa.28 Thus, there is little evidence in the fiscal data of the overwhelming power of China’s bureaucracy.

>The case that the Chinese state is one of the world’s most powerful in terms of the ownership of the means of production is closer to the mark than the claims with respect to employment and income. But this study has already presented evidence that the state’s power in this domain is shrinking. This is reflected in the declining share of industrial output produced by state and collective firms, from 100 percent of output in 1978 to about one-quarter in 2012. State and collective firms controlled all of the country’s productive capital in the industrial sector as reform was getting under way, and one can infer from the production data that its share of productive assets has dropped precipitously since. Second, the investment data examined in chapter 3 show that state firms’ share of investment in industry has been declining since 1980, while that of private firms has been rising. By 2011, private firms’ investment was almost three times that of state firms in absolute terms


File: f62ad723977fa96⋯.png (204.01 KB, 1546x958, 773:479, chineseconomy2.png)

Last post ITT unless someone wants to continue arguing this shit. Exactly how China hasn't had political liberalization is nothing short of a miracle, I'd be interested if anyone has a good materialist explanation of that



>Exactly how China hasn't had political liberalization is nothing short of a miracle, I'd be interested if anyone has a good materialist explanation of that

bruh, you actually believe the neoliberal meme that capitalist restoration in socialist countries makes them more democratic? that's not materialist at all



Why would political liberalisation be at all in the interest of the chinese bourgeoise? It already finds ample expression of its class interest through the CCP.



Sorry, backreading this thread for the first time in a while and I just wanted to say that I think that something a lot of people overlook with the "Yellow Panic" as you term it is exactly that over the past 10+ years China actually has started implementing regulations from the Central Party Apparatus down to the Provincial & Local levels and something people miss is how salty this makes not only Foreign Capital Invesment from the West but also that from surrounding Asian Territories & even Domestically. It's exactly because these things are potentially threatening the cushy postion of Imperialism in China that even those that aren't neccessarily allied with western Imperialist powers & blocs are at least, privately, pleased with the propaganda efforts of this Red Scare that is being created by the US over unease about their status as the Hegemonic world power.



Not that it would actually be more democratic for workers, bur porky generally prefers liberal democracy



I think that it has a lot to do with the CPC having the benefit of hindsight in establishing a modern capitalist state. They've learned the lessons of the 19th century, mainly that you have to keep workers satisfied, or else they will begin to develop a political consciousness and make demands not only for improved conditions and wages, but the right to freely organize, and for greater democracy. Despite the Dickens tier horrors that exist in China, they have made great gains in the standards of living, which has suppressed the desire for political liberalization.


File: d4d045d966f8a8d⋯.pdf (3.47 MB, ccp perspectives in china.pdf)

File: 7381fe235a581e5⋯.png (17.07 KB, 521x394, 521:394, chinese communist party.PNG)

File: 20c31cbfe3e9aad⋯.png (41.1 KB, 230x300, 23:30, thinking man emoji.png)

For people who think "at least the CCP is a communist party that adheres to ML", here is a funny chart from an interesting study about the social composition of the CCP and people's opinions of it in China.



>2) I don't think it was Bloomberg specifically, more like a combo from all the major MSM outlets at once.

Bloomberg published the first major article explicitely claiming the "1 Million in internment camps" hoax and the other major MSM channels all copied Bloombergs newly fabricated wording not even MC Dougal herself used, because unlike media she has to be cautious what she accuses people of without evidence, as even the propaganda report initially explicitely only compared the situation in cities with heightened security methaphorically to camps but didnt actually claim a gazillion would be inside camps.

Its highly unlikely they all came up with the same lie right after Bloomberg at the same time independently.

This is the so called UN report they are now refering to as UN expert opinions because even the UN officially denied the claims of it being a UN report or even a UN body.


Sure it doesnt really matter since they are all colluding but its good to remember where the roots of this "evil" are.




>They get a ton of funding from Taiwan.

Taiwan is just as much a proxy in this as is that Falun Gong cult.

Its rooted 100% in Washington, everone else is just pawns in their game.

The "America Uncensored" channel they created after backlash of their blatant racism getting called out is hillarious. The flattery of the Trump regime couldnt be any more blatant.

>Trump good!

>Democrats bad!

>China bad to the US!

>Trumps policies good!

no critique about America at all and barely any views.



Bloomberg hates China. I don't know what's up with them. They hate them more than any other western, except RFA I guess. Their straight reporting is always a hack-job and the put a bunch of outright racist cranks on their opinion page.



>Taiwan is just as much a proxy in this as is that Falun Gong cult.

Kinda, but the Taiwanese government does indeed fund anti-Chinese scholarship and media and it has for decades. One interesting thing I learned recently was that Taiwan's government furnished scholarships actually prohibited recipients from ever traveling to mainland China. So we got Taiwanese educated China experts who had never been to the country.

Chinese government scholarships have no such restrictions btw


If the USA's war with China went hot, would the Chinese be able to use any possible connections with American Corporations into submission?

The Nazis appealed to American Corporations and Industrialists which brought production to a stand-still for a short while. You don't hear of it for some reason. Americans don't realize that all Corporations care about is profit so you can "convince" them to fuck shit up.



Probably not. And a real war between them would have no winners.


Something interesting happening the last few days. A number of major US, Canadian, Oz newspapers coordinating quite openly against a Chinese company, Huawei, whose main crime seems to be being Chinese. Aggressively policing other outlets against a “PR offensive.” This seems bizarre that this is just accepted as normal behavior.


So is China socialist or nah?



The CPC is a rerun of the same bullshit that European social-democratic parties were like a century ago. Radical in principle, bourgeois in practice. Career politicians LARPing as proletarians, basically.

China is still lightyears ahead of the rest of the world though. It is the only country on the planet where it's possible to imagine popular discontent taking a communist form at the moment. Socialism and Mao's legacy still hold weight there. In my humble opinion, China is effectively mankind's last hope.


File: 0f6e15153cb6fd8⋯.jpg (45.89 KB, 400x341, 400:341, Xi-at-CPS.jpg)

“Why did the Soviet Union disintegrate? Why did the Soviet Communist Party collapse? An important reason was that their ideals and beliefs had been shaken. In the end, ‘the ruler’s flag over the city tower’ changed overnight. It’s a profound lesson for us! To dismiss the history of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Communist Party, to dismiss Lenin and Stalin, and to dismiss everything else is to engage in historic nihilism, and it confuses our thoughts and undermines the Party’s organizations on all levels.”

“Why must we stand firm on the Party’s leadership over the military?” Xi continued, “because that’s the lesson from the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union where the military was depoliticized, separated from the Party and nationalized, the party was disarmed. A few people tried to save the Soviet Union; they seized Gorbachev, but within days it was turned around again, because they didn’t have the instruments to exert power. Yeltsin gave a speech standing on a tank, but the military made no response, keeping so-called ‘neutrality.’ Finally, Gorbachev announced the disbandment of the Soviet Communist Party in a blithe statement. A big Party was gone just like that. Proportionally, the Soviet Communist Party had more members than we do, but nobody was man enough to stand up and resist.”



China tends to be Dengist and a neoliberal dictatorship with protections. Dengist China has been funneling money from Wall Street and European banks for 40+ years along with business people. In part due to slave labour, if Mao was as upright as he was meant to be he would never permit that to happen to his people.

> China is effectively mankind's last hope

I feel sorry for you if you believe a neo dynastic imperial nation (and a long running history of having vassal nations and destroying cultures is anything like you said.






Isn't that a white nationalist jewish conspiracy website?


Isn't that a right-wing Australian think-tank?



Maybe, maybe not

But are they wrong though?



I mean… as a pretty well read person in Chinese thinking, communist or otherwise… that's a total fabrication. Chinese people don't believe in a "Chinese race," but have subdivisions of things like Chinese nationality, Han ethnicity, and subdivided various minorities or vassal states. They don't object to religion as a competitor to their country, they believe, unlike Stalinists, in controlling religions and no one in China who is a party member is atheist. Only consumerist, tuhao people are atheist. Only poor farmers educated in Mao's reign are "atheist," but they are still leftover folk religious people and they don't think about "god" like Western theology does. They were formerly illiterate Confucianists, not Judeo-Christian. So yeah, rense's shit is manufactured without obvious knowledge of Chinese history and culture.

As for the other source… China is not a country that can engage in war like others can. Furthermore, I think China is the subversive element— the United States is not good at beating China in these games. They have tried many times and failed. Tiananmen for one, did not bring some social upheaval. Nor did the more recent student protests in Hong Kong. Indeed, China doesn't fight literal wars: they fight trade and culture wars, and they are doing a good job. They don't need imperial conquests to get their way as such. Thus, the source is just reactionary capitalist hoo ra about nothing.



The mass migrations of the Chinese into Canada USA and Australia are not nothing and seem to accord with the sources. The Chinese themselves seem more than content to continue to undermine those countries as some kind of retribution for the century of humiliation. You may justify the attempt towards the USA for being a blantant imperialist but its concerning to rationalise the subversion of Canada and Australia who had embraced Chinese the most and tends to be awefully insidious and treacherous. The rense source as well as aspis for better or worse converge on the events which have been unfolding in recent years. Dismissing those sources as "outsiders" when they have reasonably and considerably confirmed the climate in the South China Sea and the Chinese version of Lebensraum would be oblivious at best and suspicious at worst.

China had subjugated Vietnam for 1000 years, made Korea and vassal state and had destroyed pre-Kanji era Japan. More recently, had created an implicit caste system in Malaysia leading the Malay riots. Singapore was returned to Malaysia but the Chinese made sure it was away from Malaysia. There was also the Soviet and Chinese boarder dispute instigated by China among many other imperialist designs.

When the so-called CCP denies those actions meanwhile mobilising them with urgency like the bygone Dynasties have its just deflection and obfuscation. Its communist and socialism might suffer too by the actions of China.



Wow, what a vile, misanthropic little rat you are. I was quite critical of the CPC in my post, but clearly that wasn't enough for you, as I don't believe that Chinese people are an inherently aggressive race of brutes hellbent on annihilating culture or whatever the fuck you're going on about.

>I feel sorry for you if you believe a neo dynastic imperial nation (and a long running history of having vassal nations and destroying cultures is anything like you said.

You don't feel sorry for me, you're just angry because I said Chinese workers have revolutionary potential, which clashes with your national chauvinist/xenophobic anticommunist worldview. Don't even try to deny your open racism. Why else would you use China's imperialistic and self-interested policy as proof of it's lack of revolutionary potential when literally ever fucking major bourgeois power does the same?

Communism is impossible without China, they are too important a player on the world market to be excluded from a post-capitalist system. Cry about it some more, retard.



Good excerpt, I haven’t read much of Xi’s speeches / writings but I was pleasantly surprised by this. The military is an all-important force for the construction of socialism and must be closely integrated with the people, state and party. This is why under socialism I am in favor of conscription.


Is this the power of /leftypol/‘s Marxist analysis in the current year?



>The mass migrations of the Chinese into Canada USA and Australia are not nothing and seem to accord with the sources. The Chinese themselves seem more than content to continue to undermine those countries as some kind of retribution for the century of humiliation.

Not how it works. People, such as the upper classes of Hong Kong, Beijing, Taiwan migrated (especially starting in the 1990s) to first world destinations like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Seattle, Sydney, Melbourne and so on for better economic opportunities and living standards. Go talk to a Chinese immigrant and ask them what they think about your "retribution for the century of humiliation" theory and they'll have no idea what you're talking about.

>Chinese version of Lebensraum

One-child policy (1979-2016), full reproductive rights (contraceptives, abortions) for women and a strong political and cultural emphasis on parents educating and nurturing their only child instead of just popping out a bunch of uneducated kids doesn't seem in line with your theory of "Lebensraum" and all its implications.

>China had subjugated Vietnam for 1000 years

China or the "Chinese" people is a modern concept. You clearly don't know much of the history of the dynasties, khanates and other political states that ruled parts of the region now known as China.



I didnt mean to give you any shock treatment. Ignoring factual history and current affairs for the sake of ideology, especially by socialists and communists, would be negligent. With your eruption towards the fact of imperialist and geopolitical designs of China you do seem like the proverbial boomer who would lick the feet of the Chinese unironically while betraying the generations local people. Complain to the jannies all you want and call for a ban if you like but remember this: if communism and socialism until recently has been at an all time low it would reach another low once it becomes apologetic towards China considering both historical and current events. More people would flock to /pol/ than they did after Gamergate as normies have been affected and would be affected by the said "soft power" of the Han Chinese.

Posts like yours can make it frustrating when talking to others about socialism and communism who are outside the respective boards and, guaranteed, being apologetic to country that tries for Lebensraum would further entrench people away from socialism and communism.


>Not how it works. People, such as the upper classes of Hong Kong, Beijing, Taiwan migrated (especially starting in the 1990s)

You literally skipped two decades and redacted people from China starting to migrate too en mass with visa programs and then with 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧investor🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 visas along with those

> "retribution for the century of humiliation" theory and they'll have no idea what you're talking about.

They know, try as they might to hide it they know. Not to mention the implications of "owning" and belligeance towards Canada and Australia and that at the smallest slight there would be sanctions

>doesn't seem in line with your theory of "Lebensraum" and all its implications

One question: does the one child policy apply outside of China? The correct answer and despite of mental gymnastics is an emphatic no. Furthermore despite the one child policy they have saturated Western Canada and the West Coast of the USA. I suppose the imperical statistics are reactionary and misanthropic.

>China or the "Chinese" people is a modern concept. You clearly don't know much of the history of the dynasties, khanates and other political states that ruled parts of the region now known as China.

They have subscribed to being Han Chinese and identify as such and act in accordance with their cultural narrative encompassing to the chargrin of the China Apologists the neo-dynastic imperialism

So far I have provided source which have not been merited on their factual basis rather than ideological which China, to put it ideologically, considers itself non-Chinese as the proletariat and themselves the bourgeoisie specifically being their rightful place through soft power. Africans were expecting jobs but those expected jobs were given to the Chinese flying from China, pretty much scabs forming a caste system like they did in Malaysia which cased the riots there. Swap the name China for Britain and you might find yourself starting to think differently.



>the Chinese are migrating to undermine the West

>China instigated the Sino-Soviet split

>China subjugated Korea and Vietnam

Except the CPC helped in both the Korean and Vietnam wars? And the SS split was about 50-50 responsibility, maybe even moreso the USSR's fault? And what evidence do you have of that pol-tier conspiracy theory? There is legitimate criticism of the CPC but this is absolute bs.


Read The Governance of China if you want to understand Xi Jinping thought in its entirety. It's not very impressive, mostly platitudes and dogmatic adherence to the reform and opening up.



Thanks for the book recommendation, comrade.



>They know, try as they might to hide it they know.

Not an argument.

>Not to mention the implications of "owning" and belligeance towards Canada and Australia

Are you Canadian? Why are you blaming all Chinese people for the fault of a few billionaire/multi-millionaire real estate speculators who took advantage of your government's policy of having no regulations on real estate?

>Furthermore despite the one child policy they have saturated Western Canada and the West Coast of the USA.

What's your point? Do you feel antagonized by all those Chinese people?



>neoliberal dictatorship

>neo dynastic imperial nation

gtfo American shill

>and a long running history of having vassal nations and destroying cultures is anything like you said

it's not like the country was an empire and then became socialist at some point


>I mean yes they're fascists but why would that make them unreliable?



can you please post a link to the full source?






You may as well quote Trumps Twitter account for reference of the utterly baseless and fabricated propaganda bullshit maskerading as flat earth tier conspiracy theory bullshit you are dumping here.

No in fact even that would be more sensible.



VERY racist.


File: 75c9b0af2c72fa7⋯.png (250.41 KB, 576x566, 288:283, da7cd30f4dd78b72c95211aa4e….png)


>In another case, a hundred workers were required to stay late after work to observe a disciplined employee read out loud a message of self-criticism she had been required to compose.

oh no no no



>Contrast this to China where the Communist Party not only continues to control the commanding heights of the economy, but has actually expanded this control in recent years. All while livings standards continue to soar, and income inequality (both regional and between rural and urban regions) continues to decrease,

Why wouldn't this apply to the US after FDR?



>words words words

It's just text comrade, rense publishes almost everything that's submitted, sometimes it's on point, sometimes it's garbage why the strong emotion?

Trumps on the spectrum so if anything he's more credible, than say Clinton


File: b0982b8a71a7681⋯.jpg (5.65 KB, 225x225, 1:1, oi.jpg)

Oy, libertarded faggots! I 'ave a question fer ya. What the fook is outhoritharean about China and CPC rule? Because CNN said so?

Seriously faggots, tell me.


Can someone please tell a new poster how western billionaires are imperialist porkies but Russian and Chinese billionaires are anti-imperialist workers rights champions?


File: 5002592f17b699e⋯.jpg (66.02 KB, 474x569, 474:569, bjork.jpg)


can't legally fap to bjork.



Absoluttely dank, I've recently started to fucking love the shit out of Mao, fuck the landlords, fuck kapital, fuck revisionism, never stop revolutionizing



I don't see what's really that "Capitlaistic" about this

Self-Crit has been a popular part of Maoist / Chinese Socialism for a long while long before Deng Xiaopings Market reforms



>NeoLiberal dictatorship with protectionist policies

>Neo-Imperial Elective Monarchy

This is why some shouldn't be allowed to use the internet



>according to sources familiar with the matter

>Julie Greene

>Huffington Post editor

>Rockefeller Foundation fellow

sounds legit





File: 4192626fe8772f8⋯.jpg (26.46 KB, 960x893, 960:893, karl marx smiley.jpg)

It's been 4 days and noone has been able do describe what is authoritarian about CPC rule?

Blimey, all you Jackaroo ockers fucking suck and will go to gulag.


>China’s 93 billionaires’ lawmakers have an accumulated wealth of US$504 billion while the 50 richest members of the US Congress have a combined wealth of “only” US$2 billion!








Only one post in this thread called China authoritarian

>Contrast this to China where the Communist Party not only continues to control the commanding heights of the economy, but has actually expanded this control in recent years.





>South China Morning Post recently published a highly interesting report about the wealth of China’s lawmakers. [1] The paper is known as a serious source and it certainly knows what it’s talking about

>South China Morning Post


wait hold on a moment


>thats the first line of the article too




File: a172f39b1fd2a81⋯.jpg (936.83 KB, 2000x1334, 1000:667, 1552407442809.jpg)

>be you

>be lead into this room

>you hear the door behind you shut

>the bag covering your head gets taken off

>this is what you see

What do?



So you are saying it is an outright lie?



Call him a filthy revisionist and say he is not better than Tony Blair.




Just buy a new refrigerator anon, you can get old ones cheap.



love unruhe in there



this picture is pretty insidious tbh



Ni hao yo mayo gee gee



Dengoids will defend this.



Oh bother!



File: bb22c0ef84d71bc⋯.jpg (169.59 KB, 1280x878, 640:439, carter and castro.jpg)


real gommieism has never been tried



w-what's in that black purse

actually existing communism?



this picture looks like a scene from a political thriller movie



Xi never looks intimidating though.


File: 4138f2d8d7189e0⋯.jpg (1.29 MB, 3064x2096, 383:262, spoopy.jpg)


he looks spooky here



Or Goodfellas.


File: 563af820393c06c⋯.jpg (70.75 KB, 720x632, 90:79, O71Z7WH.jpg)


>trying to get sanctions lifted

>same as a failed NEP where party members party member are bought by billionaires and cooperate with the U.S on trade


File: 97955667e18bb27⋯.jpg (91.96 KB, 960x520, 24:13, fae319a3e3d318accf1d2ee89a….jpg)

File: efc1ae3192cd600⋯.jpg (43.06 KB, 600x400, 3:2, 0629-OASSAD-Cuba-Syria-Bas….jpg)

File: de8201dee8d7726⋯.jpg (44.22 KB, 450x410, 45:41, kim il sung and khamenei.jpg)

File: ef911af60802829⋯.jpeg (43.76 KB, 700x564, 175:141, milosevic us flag.jpeg)

File: 36987414f0c52b5⋯.jpg (55.93 KB, 960x1080, 8:9, 40460866_10160689653605697….jpg)


Why is ISIS there? The only communists supporting them are one Italian Maoist party and some Trotskyists.


File: 98a2364f8d7d1a5⋯.jpg (91.3 KB, 1360x765, 16:9, castro-obama.jpg)


support castrism-o'bamism



>diplomacy is counter revolutionary

tfw Stalin should be purged because he talked to FDR


Anti imperialism alone isn't worth stanning



it's used constantly in in articles about the government by SCMP


File: c05ffbc4aec2925⋯.jpg (60.94 KB, 660x371, 660:371, JASIC_strike_Image_JASIC_W….jpg)

i know this is kinda old news but for those who defend China what do you make of the Jasic Incident along with all the disappearances?


File: c684dd86ee39f24⋯.gif (89.02 KB, 493x600, 493:600, churchill stalin truman.gif)


>tfw Stalin should be purged because he talked to FDR


No handshakes allowed.



>triple handshake





>want to bring back a class of parasitic """"scholars""""

gulag and >>2801187



The claim that the SCMP is a reputable and reliable paper, is as silly as calling Trump a cultured gentleman and chevalier.

SCMP is part of Washingtons propaganda web and responsible for most of the high profile fakenews about China. Its a proxy they keep citing as "Chinese media", even if the author is a U.S. educated white American who lives in Washington or one of these dual citizenship Hong Konger educated and tied via residence permits to the U.S. Its the go to source for fakenews about China for the whole clout of FOX, Bloomberg, CNN and all the other culprits. Its openly shows bias for Trump, the U.S., the "West" and is most blatantly anti-China and anti-CCP and just as often as its producing fakenews, just echoes U.S. made only so that U.S. media can cite their own fakenews as "according to Chinese sources". They turn every shitty Twitter shitpost into a frontpage article and 5 minutes later its all over Washingtons propaganda web.

The recent acquisition by a real Chinese company has not changed anything about the way the paper reports. I suspect they are just making the best out of the fact the paper keeps getting massive traffic due all the major Western media coorporations citing it no matter how wrong and low quality the articles are and shutting it down would just make the U.S. establish another proxy. So at least they can take the profits.




As for the article about billionair lawmakers in China itself. You don't need to get past the headline

>China's Billionaire Lawmakers

That is already bullshit. They cite the Hurun report (more on that one later). According to that these 93 billionaires are "Politically Affiliated Billionaires in China".

The first layer of spin. Those are not all "lawmakers". SCMP quickly rushes over that refering to it as "delegates to the legislative and political advisory".

The second layer of spin. It's the majority of these 93 billionaires that are not "lawmakers" but "political advisors". Only 37 of the 93 are actually NPC delegates, which is a legislative body. The weight of billionaires is on the "political advisory" part, just like in the U.S. where Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffett have a combined net worth as large as the next 10 Chinese counterparts combined.

Third layer of spin is that the NPC has nearly 3000 delegates as compared to 455 members of the U.S. congress. The whole group of "delegates to the legislative and political advisory" is 5000 against 455. They are comparing a much larger mass of people in first place. Out of these only 170 are part of the NPCSC. These are congressmen that could be considered actual lawmakers compareable to an US Congress man. I cant be arsed to check which one of the 37 NPC delegates are billionaires according the Hurun report, but the statistical odds are lower than 1 to 17.

The fourth layer of spin is that in the West people the standard is to go into politics, then make corrupt policies for certain coorporations and after that they become directors and advisors of those coorporations and start the careers making them billionaires. In China its the biggest enterpreneurs, best scientists, greatest schollars and so are pushed into consutling roles as result of their accomplishments. Its all apples and oranges.

This report labels Jack Ma, Pony Ma and Zong Qinghou as billionaire lawmakers. Its just bullshit.




And finally comes the sources.

The Chinese numbers come from the Hurun report. Those are at best dubious estimates by Rupert Hoogewerf. The Hurun report provides no sources for their list.

Pony Ma Huateng was estimated at nearly 50 Billion alone. There are no public records of his wealth. Most of that is an estimate of the value of the private company he partly owns.

The issue is Rupert Hoogewerf has an agenda to shill capitalism in China and China as capitalist. Hes glorifying capitalists hording wealth. He promotes wealth hording as a competitive race. He openly undermines Deng Xiaopings reforms and attribute Chinas wellbeing alone to capitalism- The reports are nowadays extended to cover other countries but only as an afterthought. Its still aimed at China and was founded as capitalist propaganda for China. He and those suckered into this competition have a clear motive of inflating their numbers.

The U.S. numbers come from the Roll Call report which admits itself is not a comprehensive statement about the net wealth and provides an insight only. These must be understood as minimum and only public reported parts of their net values. In the U.S. they dont have to report certain personal assets like residencies. They have just ranges they have to report their wealth either. A congressman with a $ 500 Million villa and $ 5 Billion other assets may end up with the exact same public reported net wealth as a congressman with a $ 50 Million villa and $ 50 Million other assets.

The SCMP objectively does not and can not even know what its talking about. Neither can the subliminal key message that Chinese legislature is even more "capitalist" than the U.S. legislature be taken serious. thespooks.net took the bait here exactly like it was intended.



>I cant be arsed to check which one of the 37 NPC delegates are billionaires according the Hurun report, but the statistical odds are lower than 1 to 17.

That should have been: I cant be arsed to check which one of the 37 NPC billionaires according the Hurun report are NPCSC members, but the statistical odds are lower than 1 to 17.








>Liu Zhongjing, arguably, is the forefather of the Chinese intellectual dark web, and currently its most notorious stalwart.

>A piece on Liu must necessarily begin with an argument as to why he merits serious treatment…

Weeeelll? Where's the argument? There is this:

>in 2009, he completed a translation of Flying Serpents and Dragons: The Story of Mankind’s Reptilian Past by R.A. Boulay, a dead-serious explication of the theory that an alien race, the Anunnaki, visited ancient Sumeria…

Then there is some more about him making incompetent translations of books that were stupid to begin with.

>Liu Zhongjing’s philosophy — Auntology — borrows heavily from the work of Oswald Spengler

Is Otto Neurath available in Chinese? He did a long and thorough review of Spengler, and Spengler didn't come out of that looking good.


Would it be safe to read and search for Cockshott when I move to China?



No. They said they would ban him if he keeps having lectures and gives out books.


Also why hasn't the BadMouse debate not been discussed here as yet, you absolute faggots.






File: e353d514b7d66b3⋯.jpg (205.9 KB, 565x598, 565:598, chicom world domination.jpg)

pic related is what republicans and alex jones actually believe will happen



inb4 CIA instals him as the leader of a coup



Well I am on the side of Ian of course, but I find that these debates don'T allow for a debate really, two parties state their stances and after each one did it and exchanged one or two arguments the subjects changes, this results in both parties coming out without their mind being changed at all.

Even though I found it really annoying how the Maoist always brought up his opportunistic line of the Soviet Union almost every argument he brought up started with "muh soviet union state capitalism". He cant really escape his ultra leftism



I've read the wikipedia page and well it didn't sound good, of course. Iam way to unknowledable on the topic to make any claims but I think we should approach it not too dogmatic from both sides. I often see Anti Swcc communist jump to conclousions screaming "muh capitalism china bad" and pro Swcc "CPC good cant make mistakes".

It may be very well be that the CPC is making mistakes here, but we shouldn't forget that reactionary workers movments, corrupted by counterrevolutionaires have existed in every socialist country, the best example would be the Solidarność




How do you guys counter the China pollutes more so people who talk about Climate change should be angry at them?



1. They pollute more because the west has outsourced its polluting industry to China.

2. Out of all countries, they are putting the most resources and effort into mitigating pollution and climate change.



>They pollute more because the west has outsourced its polluting industry to China.

What a wonderfully way to say China caused deindustrialization and caused western workers to become unemployed.



right on bro, fucking chinese insectoid commies caused that, not capitalism.

Am I right or am I right?



Good reply for the first one point, but how to you reply to conservatives bringing up how China continues to build coal mines to this day?



China didn't cause it you dumbass. Capitalists who realized they could make a bigger profit by making shit in China is what caused deindustrialization.



They pollute less than Europe or USA per capita. They pollute even less by consumption per capita. IE, much of the pollution is for things that will be exported. Also, pollution from the massive US military doesn't figure into US pollution figures.





>coal production up 5.2%

>energy production by coal up 6%

>doesnt mention higher energy production does not equal higher pollution or coal consumption due to more efficient and cleaner new coal plants replacing old ones

>doesnt mention the relative amount of coal used in Chinas total energy mix

>doesnt mention energy production by all sources was up 8.1% i.e. coal is down

<this development goes directly against the nation’s promise to decrease the amount of coal used in their total energy mix

<crushing blow to any optimism

>finally mentions China is building new more efficient coal plants at end of article

>doesnt mention they are also causing much less pollution

<this is also bad because it will increase the energy output by coal even more!

This may sound stuck up but sometimes I wish I where another blind sheep. How can you read that and not see this bullshit? How do these papers get away with this?


I'm glad the PRC supports Brenton Tarrant's killing of 51 invaders.



File: dc13dbd82a79b4b⋯.jpg (29.06 KB, 789x350, 789:350, gettyimages-1033075540.jpg)

Yanis Varoufakis: Don't Worry So Much About China




this guy marxs


So did anyone watch the "is china socialist?" debate badmau5 hosted between the "On Mass"-podcast MLM guy (Mubarik) and Ian Goodrum? I haven't watched it yet. I fear it might be too cringey for me.



I've watched it look here for my opinion: >>2849398



It was actually pretty good and civilized.




Interesting. Thanks for sharing.


File: d03686b4d5e0c01⋯.webm (5.47 MB, 800x450, 16:9, Varoufakis_dont_worry_abo….webm)





hahaha cultural revolution when?



Is a debate even possible when the two sides use two different definitions of the word Socialist? Those who say China isn’t socialist say Socialism is when workers own ALL of the means of production. Those who say China is socialist say socialism is when the head of state says workers will own the means of production in X amount of years from now.



oh god fuck off, its the same as taking side for the

CIA controlled Solidarność



>"Western pigs and muslims are killing each other, the situation is excellent."

t. Xi "The Jin" Ping



>a member of a Marxist circle which combined struggle for workers’ rights with ecological concerns and a Chinese version of #MeToo

Ah the good old "Marxist" with Anglo American characteristics claimed but conventiently there is no evidence for anything story


What about Huayou Cobalt?







Alright so I listened to it. I kinda like Mubarik but his anti-revisionist MLM shtick is autistic as hell. Ian made some good points and came off as a very likeable and sensible guy. I'm not a dengoid (I used to spend way too much energy debating that lenin hat retard on here) but I think the pro-China side "won" pretty clearly in this debate.


Proles of the Round Table episode 23: Western Media is a F*** (w/ Ian Goodrum)



Someone recommend me some good (marxist) pro-China podcast episodes, youtube videos, etc. Preferably something I can listen to while doing other stuff but articles welcome too I guess.






Thanks. Those "Proles of the Round Table" twats are completely insufferable though. It's like they discovered r/fullcommunism yesterday and decided to start a podcast. The one with Ian Goodrum as the guest was pretty decent but literally only because of Ian.


File: ac42414242ce32d⋯.png (515.94 KB, 695x711, 695:711, Screenshot_2019-04-03_03-2….png)

does anyone know, where I can get such a suit?


File: 6482104ba619eeb⋯.png (204 KB, 271x370, 271:370, ian.png)

Chinese Socialism: A Streaming Talk With Ian Goodrum (Liberation News)



Is there a chance for China to dislodge Greece and Italy from american/european hegemony?



New wave of trade union activism in China's tech sector.


What's the difference between "Western imperialism" and "Chinese investment", in Africa?



China does it

1. without military intervention

2. allowing for re-negotiation (Varoufakis talked about how easy it was to re-negotiate a deal with China, something an american or german company would never have done)

3. for mutual benefit and not just one-sided resource extraction



You're a pretty fucking weird ancom. Not complaining though.



>without military intervention



>for mutual benefit and not just one-sided resource extraction

Except that to pay for Chinese “Investments” have to pay in debt, which they often can’t pay. Which results in China owning their infrastructure. This is littearly what the IMF does. Load up poor countries with debt they can’t pay, than when they can’t pay the debt take all their infrastructure. The only difference is with the IMF the infrastructure is privatized while with China Chinese state owned companies get the infrastructure.


Check this out, this is incredible!




China is socialist. The west is not.



>China is socialist

Imagine thinking you can just flip the Gommunism switch when uncommited billionare party members exist


File: 8bbd470ce7e80e3⋯.jpg (74.34 KB, 640x558, 320:279, 8bbd470ce7e80e3c8618416686….jpg)


Okay now I know it looks bad… that China has the highest volume of trade in the world, the biggest labor pool in the world, has plenty of high-tech cities, high-speed trains, basically its own internet, and that it has billionaires in its parliament, and they're mirroring Western imperialism, and they have wealth inequality worse than the US, and their economy is flat-out profit-centered… but dude, I swear, they're actually socialist. It's three-dimensional Go, they're going to betray capitalism and install communism any decade now…



t. First worlder

No amount of "not true socialism" bullshit will save you from the wheel of history.


File: 359dcb9dc50becd⋯.png (36.05 KB, 660x188, 165:47, SocialistDeffintion.png)


t idiot who dosn’t read facts

No amount of saying China is socialist will make it socialist.


File: 16e597b64811266⋯.png (84.58 KB, 640x337, 640:337, iutf66xplnp21.png)


I-I- swear, they'll somehow break free of being controlled by Jack Ma!!1!



No but they are because it's called the "Communist" Party of China.

Also their economy is state-owned.


File: cdd42917b2c8018⋯.gif (188.31 KB, 800x450, 16:9, tumblr_inline_paq56645XT1s….gif)


>No but they are because it's called the "Communist" Party of China.

Nation SOCIALIST German Workers party tier and I hope this is an AstroTurf attempt

>Also their economy is state-owned

Communism is when the government does things!



No no but listen.

They sent weapons to America's enemies.

Also the party is affiliated with the "International Meeting of Communist and Workers Parties". Now if they weren't communist why would they join that group?


File: ad45f17232c119d⋯.pdf (228.39 KB, Reading Guide on China.pdf)





China is socialist. If they weren't then why do they have a plan for it by 2050?




America also enshrined life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but you can keep drinking paint if you want to retain your Dengist retardation.


File: b2724fbb2cffc63⋯.jpg (221.81 KB, 1910x1856, 955:928, 1551287849483.jpg)


>citing dictionary definitions



It took me a while to realize but Dengists and Sinophiles are annoying and naive but Sinophobes are annoying and naive too but they swallow and spread the most vile and fake imperialist propaganda so I defend China when necessary.


>Trot pushing imperialist narratives

Like pottery. If you could take a look at that wikipedia article, this is the very first overseas base of the Chinese navy. A first for what is normal for the US. And this isn't fucking military intervention?

As for investment, seriously reconsider the truism that it's the same as western imperialism. Infrastructure developments during colonialism were for the sole purpose of extraction, which is why so many African railways went unused after independence. And independence in a lot of countries was dubious, you still got western-backed coups, a collaborating comprador bourgeoisie left from colonial times willing to sell out their country once again, descendants of european settlers with disproportiate ownership of land etc. etc.

When an African country deals with China, they're doing so on a more sovereign and equal basis than when dealing with former colonial superpowers. A lot of infrastructure falls under Chinese ownership (more commonly, long term lease) but the investment actually has positive effects on developing Africa's productive forces. They are rapidly developing after decades of stagnation. For this alone China deserves credit.



>No but they are because it's called the "Communist" Party of China.

Which means nothing


>Also their economy is state-owned.

Half of it is, the other half is privatized. A similar ration to France. Is France socialist, no?


>They sent weapons to America's enemies.

This isn’t socialism. Most of America’s geopolitical enimies aren’t socialists.


>Also the party is affiliated with the "International Meeting of Communist and Workers Parties". Now if they weren't communist why would they join that group?

Because of Historical reasons.


>China is socialist. If they weren't then why do they have a plan for it by 2050?

>China is socialist

>China will be socialist by 2050

pick one


>Trot pushing imperialist narratives

In what way does the US War Machine use what I have cited as anti-Chinease propaganda.


>but the investment actually has positive effects on developing Africa's productive forces.

This is the same argument Europe used when colonizing Africa


>but Sinophobes are annoying and naive too but they swallow and spread the most vile and fake imperialist propaganda so I defend China when necessary.

I’m not a Sinophobe for wanting Chinese Workers to not be exploited by capital.



But America got that

as long as you're rich


肯特州立大学枪击事件 Kent State Shooting

帝国主义 Imperialism

美國愛國者法案 USA PATRIOT Act


File: f57205d2a95c06d⋯.jpg (154.08 KB, 400x580, 20:29, KHH7rMw.jpg)

Current PRC is pretty much Not Socialist, barley even socialist, more even more oppresive capitalism. Maos china was kinder to the worker


File: ac977746fcca1ad⋯.jpg (36.55 KB, 585x396, 65:44, crude-steel-production-by-….jpg)

To all the Dengists who are saying “China needs to build up it’s productive forces.” China already is “the world’s factory.” It already has more productive forces than America or the EU. So how much is enough? Their the second biggest economy for christ sakes.



well the definition fits for the socialist sector of the Chinese economy, wich is the main economic secotr of the China wich makes the country socialist :)



well China being the lead in steel production doesnt mean that their productive forces over all are more developed than the US?

They are still recognised as a developing nation, wich still catches up in parts like health care, rural life, poverty etc

I can link you some articles on it in like a few days, if you want



>well the definition fits for the socialist sector of the Chinese economy

Same with France, is France socialist?


>doesnt mean that their productive forces over all are more developed than the US?

So you have to literally be the global hegemony to implement socialism? Give me a break.


>They are still recognised as a developing nation, wich still catches up in parts like health care, rural life, poverty etc

So was Russia in 1928


How do China's bootlickers defend state violence, lack of free speech and lack of democracy?



>wich still catches up in parts like health care, rural life, poverty etc

you fix that problem with socialism, capitalism causes them


How is China more "socialist" than the Nordic countries? Is being tortured by the state more Marxist or something?



>Same with France, is France socialist?

what? can you elaborate?

>So you have to literally be the global hegemony to implement socialism? Give me a break.

The productive Forces aren'T defined by leading in the world market, it is the combined development of the means of production and the knowledge and expertise of the workers

Those are uneven developed in China, it lacks behind in some areas. I'll link you something

>So was Russia in 1928

Sure, and Lenin said that these things cant be resolved without building the material basis for it through the NEP

>"Strictly speaking, there is 'only' one thing we have left to do and that is to make our people so 'enlightened' that they understand all the advantages of everybody participating in the work of the cooperatives…In this respect, NEP is an advance, because it is adjustable to the level of the most ordinary peasant and does not demand anything higher of him. But it will take a whole historical epoch to get the entire population into the work of the co-operatives through NEP. At best, we can achieve this in one or two decades…Without universal literacy, without a proper degree of efficiency, without training the population sufficiently to acquire the habit of book-reading, and without the material basis for this…we shall not achieve our object…the system of civilized co-operators is the system of socialism." - (On Cooperation, VI Lenin)




>what? can you elaborate?

The precent of government spending/ownership as part of GDP for China and France is similar.


>it is the combined development of the means of production and the knowledge and expertise of the workers

China is leading the world or second to Burgerland in pretty much every industry.


>Those are uneven developed in China, it lacks behind in some areas. I'll link you something

Capitalism creates uneven development. If your gonna wait for Capitalism to make Xijang as developed as Hong Kong you’ll be waiting for millennia.


>Sure, and Lenin said that these things cant be resolved without building the material basis for it through the NEP

When Lenin did the NEP he called it capitalism, no one in the USSR called the NEP socialism. They all knew it was a temporary stage of capitalism. If what China is doing right now is similar to the NEP that makes China capitalist. Also 1928 is the first year of the five year plans, when the NEP was abolished and the USSR became socialist.



>The precent of government spending/ownership as part of GDP for China and France is similar

Well Government ownership of the economy doesnt neccecarily constitute socialism

>China is leading the world or second to Burgerland in pretty much every industry

It still lacks behind in medicin, agriculture, poverty rates, wages etc

It still is a developing country

>Capitalism creates uneven development. If your gonna wait for Capitalism to make Xijang as developed as Hong Kong you’ll be waiting for millennia

China plans their economy according to those problems to boost the areas that lack behind

>When Lenin did the NEP he called it capitalism, no one in the USSR called the NEP socialism. They all knew it was a temporary stage of capitalism. If what China is doing right now is similar to the NEP that makes China capitalist. Also 1928 is the first year of the five year plans, when the NEP was abolished and the USSR became socialist.

Well he called it state-capitalism, capitalism under a socialist DoTP.

China uses the same elements but with a dominant socialist sector of the economy, wich constitutes the country as a socialist one



As long as capitalism exists elsewhere repression of internal dissidents will be required in order to prevent imperialist sabotage and subversion.



> Well Government ownership of the economy doesnt neccecarily constitute socialism

That's his point.

> It still lacks behind in medicin, agriculture, poverty rates, wages etc

> It still is a developing country

That's because they desire those things. The resources to develop ARE there. It's capitalism that's keeping them down, and they're choosing to have it.


That's absolutely ridiculous. You can't force the people to adopt socialism, they must do it themselves through revolution. China had a revolution, that was betrayed and now it enforces the capitalist status quo upon its population using state violence.



>Except that to pay for Chinese “Investments” have to pay in debt

Except that thats just oversimplified U.S. propaganda tier bullshit.

There are large Chinese grants that absolutely do not need to be paid back.

There are different types of investments that vary from most favourable credits for the creditors to planned losses for the Chinese lenders. Many Chinese credits are exactly the opposite of the proclaimed debt traps. China is often lending money to faciliate growth without any exploitation i.e. zero or near zero interest credits because it benefits China more if the economy is growing in independent foreign countries trading then with tham than throwing more money at business in China that struggle to grow further in the current economic system.

>debt they can’t pay,

In most cases they can or could if somone would actually invest in them and not just try to debtrap them like the IMF that is behind the screeching about Chinas mutual investments that quit the other way around in general result in countries being able to grow from the investment.

> which they often can’t pay

This is a simply wrong U.S. propaganda lie and hypbolic and false narrative repeating the ever same few cases that are many times in fact not fully or not even mainly Chinese investment projects and definitely not something common.

>Which results in China owning their infrastructure.

or not and they are just compensated in a way that does not equal ownership at all but is sold as such in hyperbolic and dishonest U.S. propaganda.

Or in the Chinese business lending the money is going bankrupt

Or in China extending the debts resulting in them being able to pay it back after all

Or in China kjust slashing the debts

Go shill your onesided White House propaganda page narratives elsewhere.



>Well Government ownership of the economy doesnt neccecarily constitute socialism

No, but your using the word socialism as “government ownership of the economy” when you argue China is socialist because it has state owned companies.


>It still lacks behind in medicin, agriculture, poverty rates, wages etc

>It still is a developing country

Yes, but China is also has the highest industrial output in the world. It has enough productive forces to move beyond markets and develop soly using five year plans and develop faster using just five year plans than by using the current system. The reason China doesn’t do this isn’t because they can’t, but because the CCP is run by billionaires who don’t want to do this.





>No, but your using the word socialism as “government ownership of the economy” when you argue China is socialist because it has state owned companies.

>you argue China is socialist because it has state owned companies.

I don't

>Yes, but China is also has the highest industrial output in the world. It has enough productive forces to move beyond markets and develop soly using five year plans and develop faster using just five year plans than by using the current system. The reason China doesn’t do this isn’t because they can’t, but because the CCP is run by billionaires who don’t want to do this.

Well their high industrial output doesn'T say anything about the state of their overall Productive Forces though. Yes, they are quite developed in some areas but they need to develop in others.

They are still a developing country



>Yes, they are quite developed in some areas but they need to develop in others.

Capitalism won’t, and will never develop the interior of China, because Capital only develops the “most efficient” “most competitive” areas. Look at Burgerland, the most developed country in the world, a handful of it’s cities account for most of it’s GDP. If the CCP thinks’ capitalism will be different in China they are deluding themselves.


File: 1236c6499056f81⋯.jpg (72.88 KB, 960x832, 15:13, fb90eeb675aae1cb60246a4533….jpg)


>fastest growing economy on the planet within the last decades

>fastest rise in living standards on the planet

<the policy of the CPC is keeping them down



The main topic at the last party congress was to overcome the unequal development between cities and the countryside. It's their main agenda point now and remember that Chinese companies are either state-owned or must obey state orders. So let's see what happens.



It’d be a lot easier without markets, but let’s see what’ll happen.



>Capitalism won’t, and will never develop the interior of China, because Capital only develops the “most efficient” “most competitive” areas. Look at Burgerland, the most developed country in the world, a handful of it’s cities account for most of it’s GDP. If the CCP thinks’ capitalism will be different in China they are deluding themselves.

Correct, that is why the CPCh uses socialist planning to target those problem areas



This. If eliminating poverty, raising living standards and growing the economy is the goal, clearly whatever the Chinese are doing seems to be working. Mao was based but China was poor as shit during his time. Would China have developed at the same rate if they preserved Mao era economic policy? Maybe, but probably not.



>Caspian Report

lol thanks for proving my point about your retarded U.S. propaganda



the amount of idpol and socdem fellation over there is depressing. not mentioning literally half the post are about pewdiepie since the shooting, as if thats where we should look for an explaination



I started looking at breadtube when an university profesor studying media bias toward Venezuela did an ama, which was great, but 80% is shitty liberal content


File: c6672de96765431⋯.jpg (53.15 KB, 600x600, 1:1, madman.jpg)


>probably about to die

>fuck it

>"你好, 小熊維尼!"



>i dont

you do you fucking dengoid

>their high industrial output doesn'T say anything about the state of their overall Productive Forces

just fucking kys faggot how can you be this fucking dishonest

you're irredeemable, i rly want to believe china still has some worker state characteristics, but all evidence show it wrong. use some fucking arguments ffs, instead of those blatantly dishonest excuses. answer to marxists that point out massive contradiction between the displayed goal and the interests of the fucking billionaires with huge power in the party. dont pretend its a developing country if you want to be taken serioudly you retard.



>you do you fucking dengoid

Can you point me to, where I argue in that manner?

My point is, that China is a socialist workers state, since China hold a DotP and a socialist economic sector that is the main sector of the Chinese ecnomy.

That sector is socialist, because it operates in a socialist Manner, with workers congresses that are being appointed by workers and the ACTU. It is structured as any other workers democracy in all of socialists states history.

>just fucking kys faggot how can you be this fucking dishonest

>you're irredeemable, i rly want to believe china still has some worker state characteristics, but all evidence show it wrong.

what evidence?

>use some fucking arguments ffs, instead of those blatantly dishonest excuses

I did, and listet sources you can read to educate yourself see here >>2856811




>Policy or practice based on the political or economic theory of socialism

Even the definition you cited supports China being socialist


Their strong nationalism and focus to ethnicity makes me feel a tad too nervous


File: 076a3d576803928⋯.jpg (62.57 KB, 960x720, 4:3, CPC.jpg)

China is socialist and there's nothing you seething western imperialist liberal porkies can do about it



*arrests Marxist students*


A few brainlet questions:

How bad is poverty in China compared to India, and how many people work in sweatshops? How does the government justify the oppression of the uyghurs and the fact that taiwan/japan/south-korea is way more developed and poverty-free despite being capitalist and starting from being the same war torn shithole? How many chinese will have the living standards of the average japanese in the end of this century?


File: 769960510ca032c⋯.png (347.66 KB, 3000x2100, 10:7, Tree-Map-of-Extreme-Povert….png)


>How bad is poverty in China compared to India,

not remotely comparable, see pic

>and how many people work in sweatshops

It's mixed. You would need a more specific question to get real data.

>How does the government justify the oppression of the uyghurs

It doesn't exist. The CIA and Saudi Arabia do not have a right to brainwash Chinese citizens into joining the Turkistan Islamic Party terrorist group.

>the fact that taiwan/japan/south-korea is way more developed and poverty-free despite being capitalist and starting from being the same war torn shithole




Just because sweatshop workers (which are like a tenth of the population) aren't in extreme poverty doesn't mean that they aren't suffering.

Uyghurs just want to practice their religion and be distributed the fruits of the resources in xinjiang, which all go to han chinese.

taiwan is better than china in every single way except maybe tourism factors like heritage sites or food, and they are capitalist and had the same economic conditions as the mainland after the wars.


File: 989dc24265fa78b⋯.png (112.87 KB, 290x236, 145:118, unamused pooh.png)


/pol/ falseflagger or gullible liberal, what's it gonna be?



capitalist restoration really did a number on them huh



Muh ciarxist students.



As I am genuine it would have to be the latter case. Don't you see their incredibly strict immigration laws as symbolic of nationalism?



>>fastest growing economy on the planet within the last decades

More like the history of humankind.

>>fastest rise in living standards on the planet

More like the history of humankind.



>Bourg Revolution


This is the age which many internet right wings want us to forget form what ever was happened after Xinhai Revolution.




What do you want? Total open border so that the CIA and Western NGOs and think tank can move freely everywhere in China?


File: 3ac34be5592fea2⋯.jpg (286.63 KB, 1000x661, 1000:661, 3ac34be5592fea232c55931f27….jpg)

Alright /prc/, make me a dengist. What are some books or articles I could read? I'm really skeptical towards China but I'm willing to learn if your sources aren't biased.


File: 1ad29a36f5cbfb3⋯.png (5.02 MB, 2000x1200, 5:3, china is nazbol fried.png)


Is China Socialist? The Debate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryaBIjSlteU

Chinese Socialism: A Streaming Talk With Ian Goodrum (Guest talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmjGgWh0AA

I listened to these and thought they were pretty informative. I'm more interested in the question "does China have a marxist/socialist-oriented government?" than "is China in it's current state a socialist society?", so I try to absorb any information that would help me assess the former question and ignore any dumb arguments (for or against) regarding the latter.



>Don't you see their incredibly strict immigration laws as symbolic of nationalism?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4 I wonder if she was arrested for visiting /leftypol/


File: 995594859240b59⋯.png (132.29 KB, 544x313, 544:313, kim il sung to todor zhivk….png)




>Uyghurs just want to practice their religion

I’m anti-Dengist, but this is where you have to stop. State Atheism is a good idea, and those who oppose it are reactionary.


>Everyone who disagrees with me is CIA

Wow, great insight.


as long as china is smart with their debt - and so far as i can tell they are, they'll be fine.

lagging slightly with debt.

not letting in a bunch of resource suckers / cheap labor. allowing their population to go down.

responsive to the people.

great ally.

could nuke dc if they wanted.


lagging slightly w/ tech


Based Comrade Xi.

>What trade war? Even more Chinese products coming to US


>China Ghost cities are now alive and filled with 300 million people -What is going on?


>The Truth About 50 Million Empty Homes in China




What kind of black ops 5 reveal is this?


File: 5c42c5d42bcf2fe⋯.gif (83.25 KB, 130x150, 13:15, skelly.gif)


What the fuck is this channel?


Whats that news site from the communist party? Or newspaper? I forgot the name, but didn't bookmark the site …



After watching a few all I can say is that it feels like if David Dees tried making videos


File: 254d123f80a7663⋯.png (99.13 KB, 300x256, 75:64, nickyoung.png)


is this a crptic teaser for some video game?


File: 94de48dfebd0f52⋯.png (796.96 KB, 1352x812, 338:203, 349g259151543h.png)


Looking at the other things on that channel it seems like either an elaborate massive shitpost or the makings of someone who might be mentally ill


File: cc0db0cffd83387⋯.png (92.12 KB, 400x387, 400:387, tumblr_po71rdi4s61wrglia_4….png)


So I took some time to look into his channel and it's a bunch of Boomer Qanon stuff interlaced with this website blaming doctors/the Canadian tax services of all things for some shit. I also ended up googling this strange ass videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfz3CaGLniY) location and I found that it looks like some schizo stole a dead boy's grave marker around the same time.

Food for thought


File: 617e7671ab18c1b⋯.jpg (47.46 KB, 640x360, 16:9, china_0.jpg)


So what happened with corporations in China giving out faulty vaccines exactly?



For some reason that looks like a stegano image.


File: 6c0028d2c11056d⋯.jpg (76.31 KB, 567x507, 189:169, elliot-dawson-response.jpg)


schizos please fuck off


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