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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: dcdb4c3d0e332e5⋯.png (111.83 KB, 500x500, 1:1, political_compass_liberty.png)

 No.67719[Reply]

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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File: 1427062517692.png (231.6 KB, 500x296, 125:74, b_frank_words_of_wisdom.png)

 No.2[Reply]

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

 No.709

Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



File: 1ca1e2eaa5ed7ea⋯.png (104.37 KB, 800x650, 16:13, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.92198[Reply]

Daily reminder that if you are not exacly this you are not a men

16 posts and 12 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93438

>>92198

>Want free market

>Wants totalitarian regime

You can't have it both you dumb fascist fag

>>93435

He isn't, poltard. In fact Cruz was better pick, he was actual conservative and not dumb natsoc.


 No.93439

>>93432

>legislated equality vs legislated morality

But they're the same thing.


 No.93441

>>93438

>he thinks I'm a polnigger


 No.93446

>>93435

Less likeable. Regardless of policies, fundamentalist Dominionist Christian types just come off as weird to the average American, and it would have been far more difficult for him to win. Also, back in the days of the primary it looked like Trump would have been more isolationist than Cruz, which made him more appealing. Obviously that idea's been blown out of the water now, but hindsight is 20/20.

>>93438

>Trump

>natsoc

Don't be a retard anon.


 No.93508

>>93439

not really




File: f55efb342c1e63e⋯.png (1.55 MB, 1280x1128, 160:141, communist.png)

 No.90720[Reply]

>socks are equally valuable to an amputee because it took labor to make them

How can anyone actually believe this?

199 posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93500

>>93478

>The knowledge is quite limited though. IT is like trying to apply Newtonian physics to the quantum level.

But we don't try to apply it to the quantum level. Marxism doesn't go down to individual scale. It is the subjective theory that is extrapolated to the level of society.

>It is the other way around. Individuals determine society. You are trying to apply a linear cause-and–effect explanation to a feedback loop. This also ignores outliers who do not follow societal cues.

Individuals do indeed determine society, but not as they would like. Individuals are not autonomous, even in an uncivilized condition, humans where interdependent.

>He would still be a genius. He would just apply it to a different field.

No, that's not the case. While he would still possess the potential at birth, he wouldn't be educated in the same way if at all, he wouldn't be able to theorize if he had to work all day and in the end he would end up dying as a normal guy.

>Also, could you provide proof of this “exploitation”?

Sure, let's make an example.

To make things clear, a capitalist is the person who owns capital and nothing else. If the capitalist manages his business or works in it, he is taking on the role of a worker and should be paid accordingly.

So, we have a capitalist with a big business and capital. Due to calculations by the economic team, a new investment is made. Employees manage everything from buying the land, infrastructure and raw resources, hiring workers, transferring products, sales etc. The money that the capitalist gets excluding wages and maintenance are not a fruit of his labor and therefore exploitation.

>Comparative advantage explains how both trading nations become wealthier from these transactions than they would if no transaction took place

This would be the case if each nation was independent(economically). Also hPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.93501

>>93479

>That is not what I was referring to. I was referring to the rate of process improvement increasing. Increasing these projects increases the rate.

This seems correct

>That leaves a group of strangers engaging in associations and “unstrangering” themselves.

No, not really. Because there is a free market doesn't mean people will associate more with each other.

>Courts or arbitration.

How are such courts monetized? What prevents a big business from "donating" large sums of money to the court? Who enforces the decisions?

>If supply of coal in one geographic area is low, production picks up slack in other areas.

In the meantime coal production is reduced leading to damage in coal dependent sectors.

>No, the states wanted to enter into those wars to enrich themselves. EIC was a chartered company heavily invested by the state and was a branch of the state in all but name.

EIC constantly traded with english companies, whether it was a state or not it benefited them. Also if everything was going fine before, why go to war? Colonization gave competitive advantage to the countries engaged in it and their companies.

>Regardless whether it is its primary function or not, the fact is the state holds a monopoly of force over a command economy, hence not capitalism.

This sounds very similar to the "not true socialism" left you criticize (I'm not one of them). A state can exist without being a welfare state, therefore we can deduce that the welfare function of a state is 1)not a necessary part of it and 2)the welfare state is good at maintaining the status quo.

>Classes are spooks, my man.

Yeah I'm sure there's no difference between a slave and a master or a proletarian and a capitalist. Worker strikes doPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.93502

>>93497

>They can't in a free market

Yes they can.

>We don't live in a free market so making real world examples doesn't justify your case

That excuse only works if not being in a free market changes the thing in question.

>Also without copyright laws there is no way to actual maintain a successful brand without dominating the market

As the first person to come out with a product you have a head start.


 No.93506

>>93502

>That excuse only works if not being in a free market changes the thing in question.

But it does change the things in question. In a free market those products would be allowed to be identical to the original and sold everywhere.

>As the first person to come out with a product you have a head start.

Have you ever heard of corporate espionage? Also, it doesn't matter if a small business gets a head start, a big business has the means to propagate their products further and more successfully.


 No.93507

>>93506

>In a free market those products would be allowed to be identical to the original and sold everywhere

If I am not Bob and don't have Bob's permission, I cannot make beer that is identical to Bob's beer and sell it in identical packaging because that's fraud.

>Have you ever heard of corporate espionage

because Taco Bell is totally going to break into your dinky fucking food truck to steal your family recipe for guacamole.

Also, it doesn't matter if a small business gets a head start, a big business has the means to propagate their products further and more successfully

it would still be an uphill battle in areas where the small business operates.




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.93466[Reply]

ANCAPS BTFO

5 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93492

>>93466

I couldn't care about watching the video, but since everyone is calling OP a fag, I might as well do it too. You're a big flaming faggot OP.


 No.93493

>>93491

Unions are literally instrument of political lobbyism and shilling for d*mocracy won't change it. There's no voluntarism in robbing a store, you leftist shitter.


 No.93499

>>93490

Because without the state giving them privileges over business they most likely wouldn't exist. They increase costs, reduce efficiency, and just drive businesses to either hire a new set of laborers or leave the region entirely.


 No.93504

>>93491

As long as they exercise no physical violence I'm fine with it. Lobbying the Government, however, is an absolute no.


 No.93505

>>93466

I have no objections that a good deal of businesses have very poor schedule management. It's also why a good deal of businesses don't stand at the top. They tend to suck a lot harder than the best. What though, is the point that is supposed to be made? It seems like the video is conflating time spent working efficiently and time spent in general. If all of the current work that needs to be done can be done by less people for a shorter amount of time it's downsizing time. That still leaves me with active time of day and money to be invested. I could either diversify elsewhere, or if I find others that want to work those hours out of their own volition, employ those. It would be great if no union steps in to lobby the State to restrict me and the other workers from going about our business while they're being outcompeted

Where is the BTFO in all this? I don't mind the question, that we have to guess, is being raised and am in the mood to be civil about it, because it has merit, but please, never make another post without explaining yourself. Dropping someone else's text or media with nothing to add of your own is a post without a topic, and those (don't) get deleted. You don't want to be a faggot now, do you?




File: 77bed78106a1be0⋯.png (936.66 KB, 1024x603, 1024:603, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.93237[Reply]

How do we surpass the Chinese?

28 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93485

>>93484

>On China

Your arguement is basically just the American Grand cope of predicting Muh paper tiger collapse any day now!!!!!

I'm gonna go through the examples you give

>Renting an Unused room out

Land or Residency being rented out for a Profit is Landlordism which Dosent make the room a means of production in itself but allows for the exploitation of the occupant

>Running a Buisness off a Computer

Then it is the Means of Production

Whether it is Self-Employment or Capitalist enterprise is determined by whether you are employing other individuals or not

>Carpooling

Lmao wut?

Carpooling hasn't got anything to do with Production it's just a method of transporting multiple people to save money


 No.93487

>>93485

>>Carpooling

>Lmao wut?

>Carpooling hasn't got anything to do with Production it's just a method of transporting multiple people to save money

what about uber


 No.93488

>>93487

Uber is a Enterprise where an individual is payed to drive another around while the owner of the enterprise takes a sliver of the amount payed as profit

This is different then a Taxi even as in some countries such as Cuba Taxi's are simply a form of Self employment


 No.93494

>>93485

>Your arguement is basically just the American Grand cope of predicting Muh paper tiger collapse any day now!!!!!

Economical crisis and inflation is a myth! You just have to try harder and communism will be built, i promise, just throw more bodies at it. You're literally a parasitic bacteria in the body of humanity.

>Land or Residency being rented out for a Profit is Landlordism which Dosent make the room a means of production in itself but allows for the exploitation of the occupant

Muh snowflake means of production. Nobody cares, anything can be used or converted into capital goods and there's nothing you can do about it. Your 'personal property" is only possible via state control of the people and works by limiting their financial options intervening between themunlike actual property and could limit anything else just as well. There's no logical difference between prohibition of renting and prohibition of using red colors.

You've got nothing beyond muh exploitation and the only way you can defend it is by repeating the same claims over and over in circles until anyone who debates you goes away.

Ignore the board shitting leftist faggot, filter the leftist faggot, don't respond to leftist faggot, you'll get nothing but waste your time and disappointment from looking at this deceitful mindless drone.


 No.93503

>>93494

>Ignore the board shitting leftist faggot, filter the leftist faggot, don't respond to leftist faggot, you'll get nothing but waste your time and disappointment from looking at this deceitful mindless drone

This. I don't understand why the fuck you keep entertaining him.




File: 14251cfb8587d38⋯.jpeg (130.74 KB, 1076x440, 269:110, life in ancap.jpeg)

 No.93037[Reply]

/leftypol/: I wouldn't be a worker, i'd be a card carrying member of the party!

/liberty/: I wouldn't be a worker, i'd be a successful bussiness owner!

31 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93410

>>93379

>By putting in power people that will no longer toil on them and control those who do.

No the Working class is given power over state and economy in a socialist society

As i have pointed out Numerous times Bureaucrats in a socialist society do not Profit from the Means of Production

And Workplace Democracy of varying degrees is implemented in socialist states (The DPRK is a good Modern example of a Socialist economy with Workplace democracy elements) which allow the workers at enterprises direct say in the Managing of the enterprise

>Appeal to popularity. They can be used to produce commodities,

Yes at the point that they are used to do that they become a means of Production


 No.93423

File: e1c4c27ff926928⋯.jpg (71.61 KB, 800x533, 800:533, 9I8dsgiXA7g.jpg)

>>93410

>Leftyshit turn out to be democracycuck as well

AHAHAHA


 No.93424

>>93423

>synonyms are synonyms

Wierd, huh? But don't worry, on account of your penchant for authoritarianism, YOU get the Stalinism!


 No.93425

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>93037

>I wouldn't be an employee all my life. I'd be a small business owner with a small family.

It's not really that unrealistic, anon. Maybe besides the wife and child. Maybe not none of us, but in general we're not looking to get rich. Just leave us alone and save us the helicopter fuel expenses. They're not cheap to ride, you know.


 No.93461

File: cedb38a0183b509⋯.jpg (71.02 KB, 525x439, 525:439, 5348771529001_553608163100….jpg)

/edgyasocialteenager/: I wouldnt be [the pleb who suffers under a retarded meme ideology] i'd be [ruling member of said retarded meme ideology who reaps all benefits and never has to suffer the consequences]




File: e444e061e2a5d0a⋯.png (72.11 KB, 386x250, 193:125, Stefan-Molyneux-Angel-Clar….png)

 No.93215[Reply]

what does liberty think about molymeme?

11 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93342

>>93331

-→ >>93335

What he said.


 No.93384

>>93342

where is he inconsistent?


 No.93392

>>93384

Sometimes he insists that he is le enlightened rational philosopher, free of labels. Other times, he will make ancap-ish arguments. Other times, especially when he covers elections/politics, he becomes an undying conservative and rants and raves about the left's tactics.


 No.93401

>>93227

>He seems to me to think that he is smarter than he really is

>>93335

>He's horrifically fucking inconsistent

These.

He's ok. He has biases that can get in the way of his reasoning, and he attempts to exert a lot of control on the direction of his interviews and debates. I remember watching him talking with someone about the future of AI and he outright refused to accept the possibility that AI could possibly surpass humans in technical and creative fields and kept trying to steer the discussion away from that premise.

Presumably he thinks he has some credibility in that field because he used to be some kind of a programmer. I think he fell for the "AI is just a bunch of if statements" meme. Also ever since Trump has been elected he and the rest of the eceleb crowd have been pulling off some wild 4D chess shit to justify things like having Bolton on.


 No.93451

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

stefan in pooland




File: 39b63d669c98713⋯.mp4 (4.4 MB, 466x262, 233:131, Are you smarter than a chi….mp4)

 No.93431[Reply]

what dont you like in the burgerland?

 No.93434

Lots of things.

Still beats most places in Europe or Asia.


 No.93436

A short list:

A government that has gone out of its way to ensure that every last member of its citizenry has broken or is in the process of breaking multiple laws

An education system that unsurprisingly has been turned into a stultifying propaganda dispensing system by the government

A citizenry that, as a result of that propaganda, believes things like Abraham Lincoln was a great president and the South were a bunch of evil bigots and deserved absolutely everything the North did to them


 No.93450

>>93431

In addition to what this guy >>93436 said,

A regulatory hellscape that makes us unfriendly to private. enterprise, except for those firms that make use of regulatory capture.

Being the place where Keynes' shitty ideas were lionized.

Being Israel's attack dog, and the driving force behind interventionist nation-building.

A massive welfare state that shits on our historical legacy of hardy pioneers and homesteaders.

Finishing what Robespierre started and bringing the blight of democracy en masse to Europe.

Founding the League of Nations and the UN after that.

Killing Rhodesia.

A "world reserve" fiat currency that bails out other fiat currencies when they fail

Imposing the petrodollar onto the world, allowing us to increase our money supply without increasing inflation as much, which causes retards to use the US as proof that monetary inflation has nothing to do with price inflation.

That in spite of all these failings, this is still a far and away better place to kindle freedom than the second-best option.

This is far from an exhaustive list.




File: 26e5c5c368e98d0⋯.jpg (234.04 KB, 862x1132, 431:566, gan (2).jpg)

 No.93191[Reply]

Original ancapball content created by you thread. Let's see how dead this board is.

23 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93420

>>93419

I just assume that NK is run by the generals and they just do whatever they want.


 No.93426

>>93402

>>93402

>(By this definition, even the USSR and North Korea are fascist,

Stopped reading there. You spergs seem to think Totalitarian gov = Fascism. No, you are dumber, you said

>are fascist, they just don't include racial purity

But them again you also said

> into their feels > realz rhetoric)

So 'im the sperg for replying bait.


 No.93428

>>93354

By the origins of the terms, ancaps are definitely lefties. By the modern meaning of the terms, ancaps are to the right.


 No.93440

File: b988705b1095b52⋯.jpg (67.53 KB, 680x512, 85:64, 14-capture_23082007_015046.jpg)

>>93426

Read:

>By this definition

It's not what we think fascism is, it's what YOU think fascism is. Fascism is a fuckton of things to all kinds of different people, and you wiggers at /pol/ have gotten so unironically leftist that even the USSR and North Korea are being praised for being "fascist".

>>93428

>capitalists are leftists

WEW


 No.93448

>>93428

>By the origins of the terms

The origins of the term was the French Revolution, in which the ones who sat on the left side of the President wanted to guillotine anyone wealthier than they were and the ones who sat on the right were traditionalists favoring order and productivity. Ancap far closer to the latter than to the former, especially when one considers Hoppe's arguments for why any natural order society is necessarily a traditionalist one.




File: 96c6a0e4301781d⋯.jpeg (9.12 KB, 222x227, 222:227, crackpairingmirite.jpeg)

 No.93181[Reply]

I don't really see the U.S. climbing up any freedom rankings any time in the next few decades. How much longer do you think the U.S. has until it becomes Venezuela? Any burgerfaggots have any backup plans? Pic unrelated.

7 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93406

>How much longer do you think the U.S. has until it becomes Venezuela?

After socialism towards Venezuela, the US will balkanize first. California separates as does some southern states. China and Russia get involved shitting things up, but China starts having to deal with it's slow death from automation and US not buying it's products. Russia grows in strength, but still lies at shitty upper end third world status.


 No.93415

>>93350

does the south even have a strong secession movement?


 No.93421

>>93415

If you want to count Texas then yes I suppose.


 No.93422

>>93406

>implying Russia won't balkanize first at this rate

Wow, it's like they have ancap over there.


 No.93437




File: aa0f94ba6461d72⋯.jpg (329.51 KB, 1200x794, 600:397, 1521779293210.jpg)

 No.92706[Reply]

In your ideal nation, who would have voting privileges?

42 posts and 12 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93411

>>93388

Wait is Japan really that much of a free market economy? I thought they did some fuckery with their central bank.


 No.93413

File: 65001e43a89a271⋯.png (673.55 KB, 800x450, 16:9, ClipboardImage.png)

>>93411

They ran a Keynesian program after World War 2 and then central bankers pumped and dumped the economy in the 80s for profit. Japanese workers are slaves to their employers for life, the economy is dominated by multi-generational corporate oligarchs, and the country is enslaved to the world's largest debt-to-GDP ratio. It's why so many commit suicide or become NEETs.


 No.93416

>>92706

Anyone who willing to pay taxes which would be voluntary.

>>92743

Sounds like monarchy…on way to French revolution 2.0!


 No.93417

>>93413

> Japanese workers are slaves to their employers for life, the economy is dominated by multi-generational corporate oligarchs, and the country is enslaved to the world's largest debt-to-GDP ratio. It's why so many commit suicide or become NEETs.

Even worse, after the 90's crash finding stable job become harder so you to part time. Not to mention women can no longer be housewives at this current state and it's hard, if no impossible for married women after giving birth finding stable job


 No.93427

Nordcucks lmao

The MED BULL is god ultimate creation.He built us to be strong,intelligent and beautiful.

The MED BULL is the biggest creator in the history.They created the biggest most famous empire: Roman Empire,when the empire was created the beginning of what we call Western Civilization was born.

Mediterraneans are also the biggest defenders of Europe.These BULLS defended Europe from hordes of Muslims numerous times.

They are responsible for the philosophy,mathematic and many other.The pioneers of navigation are also the Mediterranean people.They made the discovery of the American continent.

Mediterranean people are probably the epitome of humanity




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.93414[Reply]

So I read "Industrial society and its future" and it made me wonder does technological advancement necessarily lead to collectivism? Or is it rather the mob democracy with suffrage to all? As both events occurred at the same time….

Sure, I noticed uncle Ted have some issues with some of his claims which I will mention down here (with my rebuttal), however I think the overall sentiment it still relevant.

>Even most people who are in business for themselves have only limited autonomy. It is a chronic complaint of small-business persons and entrepreneurs that their hands are tied by excessive government regulation. Some of these regulations are doubtless unnecessary, but for the most part government regulations are essential and inevitable parts of our extremely complex society.

The invisible hand

>We suggest that modern man’s obsession with longevity, and with maintaining physical vigor and sexual attractiveness to an advanced age, is a symptom of unfulfillment resulting from deprivation with respect to the power process. The “mid-life crisis” also is such a symptom. So is the lack of interest in having children that is fairly common in modern society but almost unheard-of in primitive societies.

It may have more to do with the fact primitive societies didn't have the privilege of subsidized government pension



YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.91828[Reply]

Ancaps are literally the goblins

29 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.93357

>>92533

Corporations wouldn't disappear in their entirety, as there are some inherent advantages to a limited-liabilty entity to which you are not directly connected, but they would be a lot less prominent and a lot less common than they are now.


 No.93389

File: 1ff2fc885887c6c⋯.png (1.19 MB, 1240x1748, 310:437, e861d6b276f5892c9eb58dfc6c….png)

>>92530

>a corporate wet dream

A corporation's wet dream is that government-senpai would notice it. Pic rel.


 No.93391

I dunno, autistic androgynes who are strangers to the human world sounds more like the elf character in that show.


 No.93407

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>91828

>goblins


 No.93412

>>91828

>>92064

Nah Goblins are muzzies




File: 0d39205b7de8184⋯.jpg (120.14 KB, 510x1158, 85:193, hoppe property.jpg)

 No.93394[Reply]

is he an atheist?

 No.93396

>>93394

no, he worships money


 No.93398

Unlikely. His writings show he has a great appreciation for the role of religion in a covenant community, so even if he's not a full believe he is most assuredly not a fedora-tipper.


 No.93405

>>93394

Likely. He doesn't care too much about it.




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