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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Winner of the 82rd Attention-Hungry Games
/tikilounge/ - Relax, take it easy

June 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: b23dd3e45eb95bd⋯.png (361.72 KB, 750x563, 750:563, 42D10A2E-5A83-4607-A094-92….png)

 No.2897987

>TFW all the workers everywhere in the world are class cuck pieces of shit

>TFW socialist parties are losing everywhere

>TFW the future has never been bleaker

Know what, fuck all these fucking class cucks, the 21st Century proletariat are pathetic, they’re disgusting, I would unironically rather end the human race in nuclear fire, I’d do it happily, than submit to this fate where the proles happily cuck themselves forever.

Posadist Gang FTW, fuck the 21st Century proles, disgusting class cuck motherfuckers

 No.2897991

>TFW socialist parties are losing everywhere

>TFW the future has never been bleaker

>measuring the development of history through electoralism


 No.2897992

>>2897991

Bro, if people are electing fascists everywhere that’s not a fucking good sign

Do you think the 1920s-30s were the time when Germany and Italy came the closest to socialism?


 No.2897995

File: ac2e1d209cb8d2d⋯.png (99.67 KB, 375x375, 1:1, dfg1.png)

>>2897992

>Do you think the 1920s-30s were the time when Germany and Italy came the closest to socialism?

>measuring the development of history through electoralism

>measuring the development of history through analysis of the superstructure of society

>measuring the development of history through idealism

Are you under the impression that the forces that push humanity through its development were "pushed back" because the Nazis got into power?


 No.2898000

>>2897995

Yes? Like, wut? There was a revolutionary wave moving through Europe before the fash arose


 No.2898005

File: 62692f3d27c0156⋯.png (167.79 KB, 331x327, 331:327, 26fb79b69d9029e9cb6e25b13d….png)

>>2898000

And? The entire experience of the USSR was literal proof that the massive change in the superstructure of ideas of how a society runs is incapable of overcoming the basis of the forces that drive the development of a society. Certainly, it showed that the ideological changes in society have some control over the push through history given its current meta-ideology, but it was incapable of pushing past it, otherwise we wouldn't have needed the USSR as a social developmental stage in the first place.

Even if the entire ideological revolution had completely taken over Europe in the 1920's we would still have been bound to the rate of society's development.


 No.2898007

>>2898005

Haha, pardon my ignorance, is there a more simple way of explaining this? Didn’t the USSR genuinely revolutionize their economy, social relations, and massively industrialize? They were proper socialists, no? Why was the time for socialism not then? We had the technology to do it already. All that happened was that reaction was incredibly powerful. And now that socialism lost back then it seems like the world might end.

Thoughts?


 No.2898011

>>2898007

Of course they did, they massively changed themselves and showed that it was certainly possible for people to get together and consciously push the developmental forces of history forward. That is what made them socialist, and it is why the USSR was "building communism" rather than "communist".

If you believe that a continent-wide socialist revolt in the 1920s would have broken us out of capitalism, then you are saying that we could have somehow managed to get enough people together and simply declare that we are out of capitalism and have developed enough productive forces to actually be in socialism or communism, regardless of whether or not their society was physically developed enough to actually be there. This would have been the ultimate refutation of Marxism.


 No.2898014

>>2898011

But how wasn’t society ready? Didn’t we already have the tech + socialized production?


 No.2898015

>>2897992

>Bro, if people are electing fascists everywhere that’s not a fucking good sign

Fascists don't get elected.


 No.2898018

>>2898014

The USSR did not have the technology to get into a completely socialized production, no. Furthermore, it is not merely a question of the general level of technology, but a real question on the amount to which you can produce that technology, reproduce it, and reproduce the reproduction. This comes into a large question of how much labor power have you invested into tool development.

Fascists are still capitalists because they still choose to replace human power with machine power for the sake of multiplying their output, and all capitalists still drive the development of investment into tool usage, and therefore are still driving history towards socialism, whether they want it or not.

The only groups which could escape this drive towards history are groups that are already communal such as the Amish or monastics who do not seek to multiply their outputs, and primitivists who seek to actively fight tool usage (the only actual reactionaries). However, those groups that do seek to multiply their outputs will inevitably overcome any group that remains constant, so they really don't matter.


 No.2898022

why do leftists always hate the proletariat so much


 No.2898040

File: c4bfe7d126ed1d4⋯.jpg (37.47 KB, 800x741, 800:741, c4bfe7d126ed1d44be0c4a7486….jpg)

>>2898022

Because the proletariat is a fundamentally capitalist sector of society, which is a major contributing part of why a significant part of the proletariat is so personally odious (fascist sympathizers or a myriad of other reasons). The sooner it is abolished, the better.


 No.2898043

>>2898022

Too many of them fill your ranks


 No.2898049

File: 4666b951c68694e⋯.jpg (907.8 KB, 2730x2730, 1:1, 0e2b0b2759721982d0b9f63f99….jpg)

>>2898040

Actually, I think that might have gone over your head, so I will put this into smaller words with more explanation.

The proletariat, the waged working class, is a systemic product of capitalism (that is, you need to have employees in order to be a business owner and employer). This means that the proletariat are going to carry with them the marks of the system that made them: the greed, the shifting alliances, the breakdown of national and ethnic ties, the acceptance of liberal ethic of law and so on. The proletariat is a mirror reflection of capitalism just as peasants are going to be a reflection of feudalism or slaves a reflection of slavery.

If you hate capitalism then it naturally follows that you are going to hate many of the aspects of capitalism. If you wish for society to proceed past capitalism and into socialism, you are naturally going to despise the reflections of capitalism that you see in the proletariat and wish for the proletariat to stop being the proletariat and become socialist citizens.

I hope you pay attention, fascist. If you stopped talking and started reading you wouldn't be where you are.


 No.2898052

>>2898049

yeah but you think the proletariat will change if capitalism is abolished when they won't, their behavior is literally hard coded into their dna

ethnocentrism, tribalism, it's literally all hard coded into humans through evolution


 No.2898055

>>2898052

>Retarded fash drivel ignorant of science and human history

Like the man said, open a fucking book


 No.2898056

>>2898055

>still clinging to antiquated and long disproven 19th century sociology even though hard biological reality throws a wrench into his fever dreams about "emancipation"

no YOU read a book


 No.2898057

The Stalinists have betrayed the Indian workers over and over. There is no “socialist” party in India, all are sell outs. Fascism wins in the absence of a socialist aka Marxist vanguard leadership. But Modi and the fascists are barely hanging on to power. There will be massive strike waves in India that even the Stalinist trade unions can no longer keep under their control.


 No.2898059

File: cdb3a098a0e5383⋯.jpg (26.24 KB, 480x540, 8:9, 6a7a2fa5f3483dc1b946914702….jpg)

>>2898052

I'm sorry but your DNA is literally irrelevant in the face of the forces of the development of history. It literally does not matter even if you are right about every single thing about human nature, race, and genetics. See here. >>2898018

>The only groups which could escape this drive towards history are groups that are already communal such as the Amish or monastics who do not seek to multiply their outputs, and primitivists who seek to actively fight tool usage (the only actual reactionaries). However, those groups that do seek to multiply their outputs will inevitably overcome any group that remains constant, so they really don't matter.

I don't care whether or not you feel "genetically" driven to keep towards your own kind, you are literally overridden by the forces of the development and advancement of tool usage. You might be black, white, asian, jewish, some other entirely different non-human species. The forces of tool usage dictates that tools which multiply labor output will benefit best the group that is capable of multiplying its own output the most effectively, those groups that do not use tools as effectively, or those groups with inferior tools, are at a significant output disadvantage and will be wiped out. So what if humans are hardcoded to like other people who look like them? You are going to either adapt to an ethnically mixed group because it affords more labor power to be used towards the development of tool usage, or those tool-users who do accept this nature-defying change are going to overtake you because you are choosing to go against what is being selected.

You are fundamentally wrong.


 No.2898061

>>2897987

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/23/msel-m23.html

Last January they called a two-day all India strike to protest the BJP government’s economic policies, along with the other unions, including the Congress Party union federation, the INTUC. Ten of millions of workers joined the strike, seeking a means to fight. But for the Stalinists it was a sordid maneuver aimed at furthering their campaign to politically derail the growing resistance of the working class, by harnessing it to the drive of a section of the bourgeoisie to replace the BJP with a “secular democratic” government—that is, with a big business government committed to “pro-market” reforms and the Indo-US anti-China military-strategic alliance.

The real attitude of the CPM, CPI, CITU and AITUC to the working class’ opposition to domestic and global capital’s drive to intensify exploitation is epitomized in their callous and criminal abandonment of the Maruti Suzuki class war prisoners.


 No.2898062

>>2898056

Long disproven in what way? In the forever war America fights to keep its economy afloat and endless throw money at the MIC? The near collapse of the world economy just ten years ago? The fall in living standards for Western states? The massive increase in inequality? When as Marx proven wrong you dumb monkey? Anthropology, psychology, and just watching modern politics proves him more and more correct.

Whereas you legit believing in retarded long debunked race science crafted by inbred colonizers as the basis of your entire worldview


 No.2898063

>>2898059

The funniest part is that this retard tried using evolution to explain that humans are completely incapable of change

Lmao fuckin fashies


 No.2898064

>>2898059

negros and coloreds are literal dead weight. what tools do they use? they are an impediment and a nuisance wherever the roam.

>>2898062

if marx is so right where da communizsmz


 No.2898065


 No.2898067

>>2898065

people who descend from people who evolved in climates between the tropics of cancer and Capricorn are literally biologically incapable of doing anything except milling about in the jungle waiting for berries to fall into their mouths


 No.2898070

>>2898064

Unfounded and unsourced claims can be dismissed without consideration.

What have you accomplished in life? Do you even know anything about the history of Europe beyond the retarded war fetish fash zombies have? I bet you fantasize about the great Viking ancestors that would fucking murder you and savagely rape your family, right?

Fookin moron


 No.2898071

>>2898067

Unscientific

This is legit retard-tier buddy


 No.2898072

>>2898067

And? I'm waiting for some actual point instead of mindless, pointless "trigger the libs" edge.


 No.2898073

>>2898070

i don't give a shit about the Vikings at all I just don't want PoC anywhere near me

they are a literal menace that makes my life difficult

how difficult is this to get


 No.2898074

>>2898072

the point is you cannot deny the realities of human biodiversity, negros and other poc will not be a good fit for higher tier civilizations no matter how much you try to socialize them


 No.2898075

>>2898073

Then fuck off and live on some island you dumb white monkey

Goddamn

Fucking up everyone else just cuz you can’t handle people having more melanin then your mutant inbred self


 No.2898076


 No.2898077

File: c79ccf44412180a⋯.gif (1.17 MB, 360x270, 4:3, c79ccf44412180a40948a06fa5….gif)

>>2898074

I literally don't give a fuck.


 No.2898078

>>2898075

why should I go live in an island to escape poc invading my lands? i am not going anywhere poc are the ones who should go to the islands (they literally evolved to live in tropical islands)

>>2898077

doesn't it get depressing denying reality everyday though? Communism will never come and fascism is eternal


 No.2898081

>>2898078

Nobodies invading your land you dumb fucking mook

Maybe your governments should stop exploiting the Global South, starting Wars there, and destroying the environment there?

Ah, but fash monkeys don’t want that, do you?

There’s a reason why the cure for you fuckers is a bullet, straight to the heart


 No.2898083

File: 498e517ebefc235⋯.gif (1.24 MB, 245x253, 245:253, hitchens laugh.gif)

>>2898078

>Fascists are still capitalists because they still choose to replace human power with machine power for the sake of multiplying their output, and all capitalists still drive the development of investment into tool usage, and therefore are still driving history towards socialism, whether they want it or not.

Communists will always have the last laugh. You're worried about literal caveman tier unga dunga where muh white womens at and I'm interested in the development of history for not only humanity, but for other species on the planet, over the course of the next millenium.

I have already won, fascist.


 No.2898084

>>2898081

it's not my fault you niggers are too disorganized to run basic mines and every time y.p. poe show up to try to teach you how to run one you consider it "exploitation"

my homeland isn't be invaded? are you sure? I can't step outside the house without getting mos eisley cantina vibes everywhere I go. pocs everywhere. in every nook and cranny lurks a PoC. it's horrible.

majority of you don't even work you just sit all day shitting up the place selling drugs and making Rap music.

except for maybe some Hispanics. they're honestly OK. but even all they do is just drive down wages for wypipo.


 No.2898085

>>2898081

> straight to the balls

bettered


 No.2898086

>>2898083

the pocs are going to outbreed white people the only thing in your future is 20 billion poc leading the world to ecological disaster and canabalizing your ass raw in the town square


 No.2898087

Why are you guys giving boonposter attention? You all should know very well he never argues in good faith, just schizo-tier posting.


 No.2898088

>there will never be a will to educate the proles

There used to be people who could do so but no more. If you have a giant mitten for a hand due to labor, they'd probably listen more.

As a former tile guy, I can tell you that you expect too much of'em.

1 they're less educated usually. Unless you can simplify and explain you have no chance. You can't just tell them to read something.

2 some feel good positions are not well received. There were people in welfare when I worked who despised welfare because they worked. Doesn't matter its cognitive dissonance.


 No.2898090

File: 97916191eff67fc⋯.png (96.75 KB, 1156x869, 1156:869, ad2555134802503e3e33bb6c07….png)

>>2898086

>only thing in your future is 20 billion poc leading the world to ecological disaster and canabalizing your ass raw in the town square

It's fascinating that you think that this is what "fascism is eternal" looks like as a presumably positive thing. Are you meaning to say that you're dark skinned, seeking to establish Black Fascism?

If that's the course that things take, it's unfortunate, but I already have seen that there are enough other tool-using species on the planet that communism will still almost assuredly be developed.

I hope it's birds. It would be fascinating to have the descendants of the dinosaurs to be the ones to take the stars.

I have already won, fascist.


 No.2898091

>>2898086

If we’re going to outcompete you than you mutants were obviously inferior anyway, now fuck off you dumb fash

We’re in the business of shooting fashies, not cuddling with them


 No.2898093

Aren't most fascists middle class? Why all the hate for the lower class?


 No.2898094

>>2898093

>Aren't most fascists middle class?

But almost everyone in India and other shitholes associate themselves with middle class even if they poor as shit.


 No.2898095

Bro, I warned you about electoralism. I told you, dog.


 No.2898097

>>2898087

Because online debate is a spectator sport.

I'm not talking to boonposter, I'm talking to others who might be quietly interested.


 No.2898126

tbh India’s fptp system makes it very difficult for communists to win. They were second largest party by popular vote in 2009, now they’re nearly diminished


 No.2898187

>>2898094

I don't know about that. Just look at Brazil. The wealthiest regions voted for Bolsonaro while the poorest voted for the other guy.


 No.2898202

>Modi

>Fash

lol, he's not facist he's a neocuckservative


 No.2898203

>>2898093

Most Fascists are working class matey

You're confusing fascists with boomer faggots who care about nigger taxes or some gay shit


 No.2898208

>>2898203

Proofs? Hitler's and Franco's main support came from the petite-bourgeoise.


 No.2898210

>>2898208

I cant say for the rest of the fascists since I never bothered looking into them.


 No.2898212

>>2898202

So a fascist that's too much of a coward to admit he's a fascist.


 No.2898232

>>2898212

Fascism is economically centrist

Conservatism is economically capitalist

You cunts lumping degenerate capitalists is just like the boomer retards who say Stalin was a fascist

Fascist is not just a fucking byword for authoritarianism, and in fact there are variants of fascism that are socially centrist like mine


 No.2898242

File: 0dfa8beed6019f7⋯.png (9.54 KB, 533x533, 1:1, 0dfa8beed6019f798bd1aea0ec….png)

>Fascism is economically centrist


 No.2898254

>>2898242

we must have very different meanings of centrist and fascism then matey


 No.2898261

>>2898232

Wtf is the center between workers controlling the MoP and State and Capitalists doing so? And how is fascism in between that when capitalists own the MoP and the state under fascism?


 No.2898263

>>2898261

>>2898232

No, what is the center between "develop your productive forces" and "don't develop productive forces"?

Ownership of MoP is superstructure mate.


 No.2898267

File: 5e21bcc146f4420⋯.webm (1.61 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, lionlaughing.webm)

File: a6d9208bdd68cc3⋯.png (8.56 KB, 765x121, 765:121, a6d9208bdd68cc36c70fa445a8….png)

>economically centrist fascists


 No.2898269

>>2898261

Yep, we have different definitions of fascism


 No.2898270

I'm an Anarcho-Fascist.


 No.2898271

>>2898267

>Trusting a Capitalist magazine

lol


 No.2898272


 No.2898596

>>2897987

>the 21st Century proletariat are pathetic, they’re disgusting

sounds like typical radlib shit

of course they vote reactionary parties, this is nothing new, this was happening even in the past

we should educate them, help them understand what's happening


 No.2898598

>>2898022

we don't hate them


 No.2898600

>>2898040

>calls himself anarchist

>hates proletariat

kys champagne socialist retard


 No.2898603

>>2898043

That's not reason to hate proletariat.

It's not we against the reactionary parts of proletariat, it's we against the burgeoisie and if you don't understand this, then you are liberal retard


 No.2898611

>>2897987

The only way to truly fix all this shit is by either

1) explaining what leftism actually is

2) run for office so that it forces people to pay attention to your message

3) organize with others

>>2898270

based

>>2898603

based * 2


 No.2898617

The elections are all rigged. Socialism isn't losing, it would never win in electoralism. What matters is that leftists are organizing more and more.


 No.2898620

File: 2dcd5c7cf84758e⋯.png (118.6 KB, 680x684, 170:171, tfw Lenin.png)

That happen when you don't fight for workers, and instead you fight for trannies and bourgois womens… If the left doesn't left that stupid ideas SJWs, the fascism shall winning in all the world.


 No.2898632

>>2898263

Lmao, no it fuckin isn’t mate, who owns the means of production is what determines what mode you’re in, you don’t need magic technology to have socialism, wtf lmao


 No.2898634

>>2898620

Ah yes, that’s certainly the fight in *reads notes* India

Wrong country mate, try again


 No.2898635

>>2898634

India isn't a vaccum


 No.2898638

>>2898603

Fuck off anglo, destroying reactionary proles secures my existence the same way destroying bourgeois is. But let’s see how your logic works when some poor fuck from the factory that’s now in the SS bears down on your ass and you tell him you should kill your boss together.

Fuck reactionaries, they get the wall


 No.2898639

>>2898635

India also doesn’t have the same political discourse as America, so leftists in India aren’t focusing on trans rights or gay rights or whatever else you were trying to pin it on


 No.2898643

>>2898600

Read what I actually wrote.


 No.2898745

>>2898632

>who owns the means of production is what determines what mode you’re in, you don’t need magic technology to have socialism

<I think you can have capitalism without capital

<I don't understand why the USSR went through the NEP, collectivization, the five year plans, etc

Do you kiss your Marx flag with that mouth?


 No.2898747

>>2898745

Let me pretend it is 1917 Russia

Yup, Socialism will magically be achievable once every human is dead and the seas are sterile acid


 No.2898755

>>2898747

So you fundamentally disagree with the idea that the forces of production are what drive the development of society?

I hope you don't consider yourself a materialist.


 No.2898765

>>2898755

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that just because the forces of production are there to allow socialism means society will transition to socialism. What magical technology are we missing to enable socialism? Most labor is heavily automated, we have overabundant food, we have advanced computers for planned economies, what the fuck else are we waiting for?

Socialism is possible today, your issue isn’t that you adhere to determinism to the extent that you believe socialism will magically happen once it’s feasible, which does not fit reality. You think capitalists will take the transition happily? You think they’d just let it happen? You think socialism is inevitable?

We have to CREATE socialism, and the time to create it isn’t now, you’re delusional if you believe capitalists won’t stem the tied forever, more so if you don’t realize human extinction is another possibility instead of socialism.


 No.2898772

>>2898765

>Most labor is heavily automated, we have overabundant food, we have advanced computers for planned economies, what the fuck else are we waiting for?

>Socialism is possible today,

Not sure what you're disagreeing with me then. Do you think that the reason we're seeing massive social upheaval today has nothing to do with the presence of the mass automation, advanced computers, and overabundance of food?


 No.2898778

File: d7348791a46dec4⋯.png (411.91 KB, 840x854, 60:61, 1557428184453.png)

Hellworld 20xx incoming bois. Gonna be a thrill.


 No.2898884

>>2898056

>thinking that concepts of nation and race less than 1/2 a millenia old are hard coded into peoples dna

Like he said read a book; try Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson or The Invention of the White Race by Theodore Allen


 No.2898890

File: e7bbb26511b3c4c⋯.jpg (168.57 KB, 998x618, 499:309, Thomas-Sankara2.jpg)

File: dc7471091bec84a⋯.jpg (102.07 KB, 850x478, 425:239, 5ae4a34485600a7766545fe7.jpg)

File: 979453190c8dcb8⋯.jpg (192.13 KB, 902x1024, 451:512, 76a2e30f5f29c950d743e49178….jpg)

>>2898067

>>2898064

>>2898074

>>2898078

>>2898084

>Implying

Fascists have it backwards. It isn't "X race makes X system better/worse", its that socialism objectively makes each "race" better then it ever was before.


 No.2898893

>>2898232

Fascism is theoretically corporatist; which is to say the state was meant to take up an umpire position between labour and capital to ameliorate class conflict. In practice fascists "solved" the labour question by destroying all independent working class political organizations (unions, political parties, cooperatives etc.) and enabling their bourgeois cronies to exploit the working class in an unprecedented manner.

Fascism is capitalism in decay and a bourgeois political project. Stop taking fash "theory" at face value and recognize how fascist regimes operated in practice.

I'd reccomend this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZR9a_vvfk


 No.2898901

>>2898893

Yup, always a mistake to see Fascism as anything but the bourgeois dispensing with the pap and pageantry of bourgeois democracy


 No.2898921

File: 93d3f5cfaad41cd⋯.png (897.96 KB, 1656x726, 276:121, dugin.png)

>>2898086

>canabalizing your ass raw in the town square

I fail to see how that is bad.


 No.2898995

>>2898921

Is that real? Looks fake because that star of david.


 No.2899030

>>2897987

The reason why, is because the gang running the show have figured out how to use fear as a means of controlling people, and so now they push that 24/7.

As for India and Modhi, the Indians starting sucking American dick several years ago, now. I don't know what has caused it, but the Indian population now seem to be greater cowards than they were under the British East India Company. They tried to resist the British, whereas with the Americans, they seem to compete with each other to see which of them can throw away their heritage the fastest, or subjugate themselves the most completely.


 No.2899031

>>2897991

It's getting worse by every metric you can think of


 No.2899034

>>2898059

This is the first time I've seen someone who has identified as a Communist, write or say anything which actually makes coherent, verifiable sense.

I am duly impressed.


 No.2899035

>>2898049

Nope, the former warsaw pact proletariat including the Russians were still thoroughly reactionary even after decades of soviet rule.


 No.2899036

>>2898064

>what tools do they use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ

According to this, black Africans have had bloomery furnaces and been producing tools from at least wrought iron (if not actual steel) since around 200 BC.


 No.2899039

>>2899035

>Nope, the former warsaw pact proletariat including the Russians were still thoroughly reactionary even after decades of soviet rule.

Granted, but I will point out that:

The soviets still retained a significant capitalist character (state capitalist, to drag out a tired overused phrase in a different way). This is a good thing, it helped industrialize and develop through a necessary period of material development far more efficiently, humanely, and appropriately than individual capitalist. That they were still proletariat is a rather telling sign.

The superstructure elements are far less rigid than the base material element. They will invariably reply and follow along with the base in the same way that capitalism must build towards crisis, but you are not going to be able to tell exactly when in many cases. The class relationship to the base is itself the rooting of the superstructure and through the usual analysis this is how the base transforms the superstructure. The USSR was only around for some 70-odd years, that's long enough for people to have been born before it and died after it. Sentiment withers slowly. I mean there's people who still want a monarchy centuries after the age of feudalism died out.

Ideas and sentiments form in part from the buildup of other ideas and sentiments, as well as experiences that are incorporated into them as a literal cost to produce, along with all sorts of other material costs of development. Considering how piecemeal this process is, it's not surprising at all that it doesn't happen all at once.

I ain't gonna say material history doesn't stagger like a drunk, just that it moves and is directed.


 No.2899068

>>2898040

The proletariat has to be organized as a class before it can abolish itself, shit-for-brains.


 No.2899195

Why? Social democrats have been a major political force in the west for like half a century, usually getting 50% of the vote in most western countries.


 No.2899206

>>2898620

Funnily enough embracing identity politics is working out great for "leftwing" oriented parties in Europe. Kind of wondering how some of the centrist parties constantly manage re-election there. Their policies are almost always universally unpopular (favoring corporations, increasing taxes etc) and they manage to sell out more to internationalization which displaces local workers. I guess people just watch the television to tell them they're good guys so they vote for them lol.


 No.2899249

>>2899034

welcome to leftypol, the only stronghold


 No.2899279

>>2899039

Sure, but that doesn't negate the fact that when the proletariat actively starts pushing for reaction, something needs to be done on a practical level.


 No.2899318

>>2898057

If we only had a true vanguard that represents the real movement, then the proles would surely flock to it! Man, if we could only run an experiment in a country like Italy where Bordiga keeps the good spirit of true Marxism alive, surely fascists wouldn't win there, right?!


 No.2899738

Could you explain in what way they are a fascist? I haven't kept up with it so I don't know if you're exaggerating.


 No.2899749

>>2899030

>I don't know what has caused it

China doesn’t like India. America doesn’t like China.


 No.2899773

Communism is the antithesis of human nature. Expecting sane humans to vote for communism is moronic


 No.2899774

File: ef0d6f3ecf158d0⋯.jpeg (22.59 KB, 255x224, 255:224, cyka.jpeg)

>>2899773

>implying markets exist naturally

>implying people haven't had "human nature" drilled into their skulls from a young age


 No.2899782

>>2899773

Read a book.


 No.2899785

>>2899068

Yes. I didn't say I don't support the proletariat, just that they are going to be systemically produced to act in a way that is personally dislikable. Just like killing bourgs is personally disgusting but revolutionary embraced.

>>2899279

Sure. That has nothing to do with the question I answered though.


 No.2899786

>modi is fash

by the most piss poor definition as "right wing dude"

>Socialist parties

corrupt socdems

>muh future bad

get a fucking life.

Also modi was already in office, this isn't major news.

>>2898084

niggers kinda suck…..

but whites are even gayer


 No.2899810

>>2899773

Human nature is molded by the material world. Communists seek to change the material world by making the working class gain power via a proletarian dictatorship and destroying all counter-revolutionary tendencies. By instituting genuine democracy, human nature will change over the next generations and the democratic state itself will wither away as the bourgeois consciousness of avarice, greed, and ruthlessness gets replaced by the communist consciousness of freedom, pursuit of truth, and genuine equality.


 No.2899850

>>2899773

>Expecting sane humans to vote for communism is moronic

And yet large, presumably not-insane numbers of people voted for avowedly communist parties all over the globe, e.g. as early as 1925 the Czechoslovak Communists came in second place in elections and in the first post-WWII elections (which even Western sources concede were basically "free and fair") outright won.

Other examples could be given, e.g. the election of Allende, the US government intervening to prevent the victory of the PCI in postwar Italian elections, and so on. Another example: the KPD was gaining in votes until the Nazis took power in Germany.


 No.2899888

>>2899786

What is your definition of fascism?


 No.2899894

>>2899785

Since I guess it's not exactly clear: From a left wing perspective, the only time we "like" the proletariat is when it as a class is following history's attempt to abolish it, and all our interaction with the proletariat as a collective class is aimed at this goal. In most other respect the proletariat is not particularly pleasant for the leftist.


 No.2899895

>>2899894

didn't Marx really stress on how important educated proletariat class is? do you think back in 20th century, workers were had better(not deeply embedded in bourgeois ideology) education and hence were more class conscious?


 No.2899918

>>2899895

I would say that it certainly seems like the quality of much education has degraded in terms of providing capacity for critical reasoning skills. It really does seem like the hardest part of getting people on the left starts with needing to teach people just how to even start basically thinking about the very things they're regurgitating from the most blatantly bourgeois propaganda books.


 No.2899932

File: e97eacb01b6a95f⋯.jpg (140.71 KB, 1200x1600, 3:4, dca897ef-8e82-4877-a263-67….jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDDUY91jrx4

i thought india had the largest communist population in the world (next to turkey)

wasn't there a poll done in every country that ranked how favorably people view socialism/communism and india got the #1 spot with a majority of the people being favorable towards it? i remember seeing that


 No.2899933

>>2898015

hitler was elected, yes they do


 No.2899936

File: 09fa58d2361f101⋯.jpg (202.68 KB, 1529x848, 1529:848, oqsb25vii8s11.jpg)

>>2898022

leftists do not hate the proletariat, they hate the lumpenproletariat and the petit bourgouise. you got a lot of reading to do retard if you actually think that leftists "hate the proletariat" because they think trump loving rednecks who vote and work against their class interests are bad. ur an idiot bro


 No.2900143

>>2899888

the comintern def?


 No.2900165

>>2899933

> hitler was elected

No, in July and November 1932, the Nazis received 38% and 33% of the vote, which is a plurality but not enough to bring them into government. In the 1932 presidential election, Hitler lost to Hindenburg by a wide margin. Hitler came to power not through elections, but because Hindenburg and the circle around Hindenburg ultimately decided to appoint him chancellor in January 1933. This was the result of backroom dealing and power politics, not any kind of popular vote.


 No.2900169

>>2900165

wow Thats the first time I heard that, dont know if its true but


 No.2900171

Hello everyone

Indian anon here.

I have covered the topic about the recent elections here

http://oxwugzccvk3dk6tj.onion/leftypol/res/2897853.html#q2900022

Addendum - it must be noted that in past few years BJP, the right wing party, has got huge donations compared to any other party. Key to this was Financial bill 2017 which allows political parties to get funds anonymously through electoral bonds issued by State Bank of India(largest commercial bank but not similar to Federal Bank. That would be reserve bank of India.). Mibd you, this bill was passed almost unanimously. And guess which party got more than 90% of funds through this?

https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/electoral-bonds-ruling-bjp-bags-95-of-funds/articleshow/66858037.cms

No wonder they have the capital to run effective media campaign.


 No.2900175

>>2897987

What is considered fascism is getting pretty vague these days.


 No.2900196

>>2898620

Ye cause trans rights are the hot shit topic for maoist militias in india lmao


 No.2900197

>>2900175

Fash is whoever gets the bullet in my socialis utopia and I also get to decide who it is


 No.2900201

>>2900197

This but unironically.


 No.2900203

I have a theory about that, the working class could be defined in two distincts fields. the economic (in the material conflict against the bourgeoise) and in the sociologic (the class consciousness), our tragedy in the fact that the new relations of production, more atomized, where competition between workers is much more brutal, where cooperation is zero and where the boss figure is much more abstract, prevent the formation of class consciousnessat the same time the class struggle continues in the economic sector, which causes revolts, such as yellow jackets in France, at the same time as the impossibility of the existence of a class consciousness and the conflict of material interests between the ruling class and the workers are a open door for the domination and radicalization of the dominant ideology, this explains the workers' support for proto-fascists candidates.

>>2898620

This is the consequence and not the cause.

Also, in countries like India the identity politics not really matters, they first need to fight for basic human rights.


 No.2900204

Indian "democracy" is a farce. This video is proof:

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/bpawn0/woman_holding_voters_hand_to_press_evm_button/

This was in Bengal, the former stronghold of the CPI-Marxist. Now it should be more clear why they suffered such a "crushing defeat".

The reason Modi won was because the INC and the Ghandi family are extremely corrupt and largely hated. It's similar to the Trump vs. Hillary situation in the US.


 No.2900313

Interesting article on the Indian economy. tl;dr: India just sealed its fate not as a new China, but as the new Brazil

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2019/05/19/india-another-china-or-another-brazil/

>>2897991

Spain? UK? Mexico? Argentina is also fated to veer leftwards this year.


 No.2900329

>>2900313

Well that was fucking stupid, could’ve been a world power, instead chose to be a failing state destroying its environment

Why?


 No.2900334

>>2900329

Because the Ghandi family is so terrible that they would rather do that. Similar to Americans electing Trump instead of JEB! or Killary.


 No.2900364

>>2897991

???

Engels: “On the day the thermometer of universal suffrage registers boiling point among the workers, both they and the capitalists will know where they stand.”


 No.2900481

The guy honored the Japanese during World War 2.

“Prime minister Narendra Modi on Sunday announced the renaming of three islands of Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as a tribute to Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose. . . .The Ross Island was renamed as Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose Dweep, the Neil Island as Shaheed Dweep and the Havelock Island as Swaraj Dweep. . . . “‘When it comes to heroes of the freedom struggle, we take the name of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose with pride. The first prime minister of the Azad Hind government Subhash Babu had made India’s independence resolution on the soil of Andaman,’ he said.”

Modi began his speech by asking the people in the ground to switch on the flashlights of their mobile phones to honour Bose.

Thousands of mobile flashlights were then switched on providing a visual delight.

Donning the Azad Hind Fauj (Indian National Army) cap, he addressed a public meeting at Netaji Stadium on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the hoisting of the Tricolour by Bose.

At the stadium, the PM also released a commemorative stamp, its first-day cover and a Rs 75 coin.He also announced setting up of a deemed university named after Bose.

The Andaman and Nicobar islands are not just a symbol of India’s natural beauty, but are also like a place of pilgrimage for Indians, said Modi.Modi also visited the Marina Park and hoisted a national flag on a 150-feet high mast, besides paying floral tribute at Netaji’s statue.

On December 30, 1943, Bose had suggested that Andaman and Nicobar Islands be renamed as Shahid and Swaraj Dweep respectively.

During World War II, the Japanese had captured the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and Netaji came here as the Azad Hind Fauz led by him was an ally of the Japanese force.

“‘The historical event of 30th December 1943 has been completed today after 75 years,’ Modi said. . . .”

The 1943 renaming of the Andaman Islands was done during the brutal Japanese occupation of that territory:

” . . . . [KR] Ganesh [the MP from the Andaman and Nicobar Islands] Ganesh pointed out to the House that the local people of the Andamans were imprisoned and tortured by the Japanese in the same Cellular Jail in Port Blair where Netaji Bose raised the flag of a free India for the first time in December 1943. [MP] Samar Guha was unaware of this, as were most other members of Parliament. He wanted to know if the atrocities by the Japanese occupation forces on the local people had taken place before or after Bose’s visit. Ganesh’s reply was, “Before, during and after.” . . . . ‘Japanese troops acted harshly against local populations. The Japanese military police were especially feared. Food and vital necessities were confiscated by the occupiers causing widespread misery and starvation by the end of the war.’ The situation was the same in Port Blair and surrounding villages and nearby islands such as Neil Island and Havelock Island. I have come across many stories of the fear of the Kempeitai, the Japanese military police – of the arrests, the beatings, the hunger, the fear and anxiety that had gripped the people with hundreds in jail for suspicion of spying for the British. . . .”


 No.2900504

File: c679c8bde1703a5⋯.png (154.36 KB, 416x435, 416:435, 1539315297161.png)

>>2898052

>>2899773

>Hurr muh human nature


 No.2901340

>>2900364

Seeing as this post I made doesn't seem to be showing what it's meant to, lemme go a bit further.

Elected officials obviously are going to measure society. But the political elite don't really seem interested in putting fascists into power when their hold is cemented. They've typically preferred to elect bland characters who talk about making compromises and have quaint scandals. People who disagree with the system are outcast as "extreme" at best, and crazy at worst. The system is already in the favor of the ruling elite, there's no reason to try bucking anything.

When fascists are getting into power is when you can tell the elite are scared, they're willing to start pulling away the mask and risk upsetting some people at the hope of simply forcing people back into the system. Electoralism is a thermometer of social unrest. It's naturally going to skew to the right because the ruling elite will always pull a right wing takeover than a left.


 No.2901546

>>2897987

>denounces a system which is explicitly made to make working class class-cuck themselves, and which has become increasingly better at it

>blames it on the working class

>calls himself a socialist


 No.2901555

File: 071bd363a1f0a45⋯.png (510.17 KB, 498x635, 498:635, 60397774_2175655099208909_….png)

>>2900504

Coming to think of it… Even though the visiting of swastika-heads and other right-wingers is occasionally annoying, I must admit that over the years I've found the presence of their weak nonsense very enlightening. Not their posts and crap per se, but rather the counterarguments given by members of our board. This state of affairs has both in the past and present yielded good insights and perspectives on many subjects.

You could in a sense say that the disarming and dismantling of their rhetorical sewage here has and still is inoculating me to their bullshit, which is a privilege I'm glad to have been exposed to first, rather than having faced echo-chamber refined /pol/-bollocks straight away.

I'm not gonna reply to each and every one in this thread separately –not to mention all past instances– but you surely know who you are yourselves, and I'll take this opportunity thank you for your efforts.

/off-topic


 No.2901556

Not really, China is now finally being forced to get it's act together again


 No.2901563

>>2898620

>>2898620

> instead you fight for trannies and bourgois womens

Literally a different kind of ball game of identity politics (mostly racial and religious) in India you fucking retard.




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