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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: dcdb4c3d0e332e5⋯.png (111.83 KB, 500x500, 1:1, political_compass_liberty.png)

 No.67719[Reply]

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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File: 1427062517692.png (231.6 KB, 500x296, 125:74, b_frank_words_of_wisdom.png)

 No.2[Reply]

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

 No.709

Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



File: e2ae5c49697b682⋯.png (444.73 KB, 800x542, 400:271, 1561431829.png)

 No.103575[Reply]

>socialist gotchas

>"in ancap how will we get X?"

>"I'm 12 and what is this?"

Feel free to ask all your stupid question here. Check the wiki https://archive.fo/bbtHt before posting.

Previous episode: >>/97996/

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103578

File: e8326349799b457⋯.pdf (171.9 KB, Nuclear Weapons, Prolifera….pdf)

>>103577

The better question is what's stopping you from using it.


 No.103580

>>103578

Sure, what is stopping me from using it?


 No.103581

>>103577

If the excellent game theory piece is too long or big-brain for you, consider this: Nukes are just very large guns. The objections you would have to civilian proliferation of ukes are essentially the same to the objections gun control advocates have for firearms. Likewise, the arguments that show civilian gun ownership is no big deal and reduces crime are the same arguments which show nuke ownership is no big deal.


 No.103582

>>103581

>If the excellent game theory piece is too long or big-brain for you.

Pls gib

Also a gun is not at all comparable to a weapon of mass destruction like a nuke. Guns are not designed with killing millions of innocents in mind, they are (mainly) for self-defence and post-geneva conventions warfare.


 No.103583

File: e8b44f87235ecee⋯.png (1012.28 KB, 1440x912, 30:19, 1561493602224.png)

Why do you guys hate neoliberalism?




File: bf57d71059395f0⋯.png (62.36 KB, 1145x556, 1145:556, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.103550[Reply]

What happens when the bubble pops? Where do we go? How do we drag humanity into luxury space ancapism?

5 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103567

Buy crypto.


 No.103570

File: af5048fb3a1314b⋯.png (1.5 MB, 1024x1024, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>cucks think the collapse will be fast

>they don't realize we are already in the collapse

>they don't realize it will be slown like that

>they don't realize they won't even notice when its complete

>they don't realize it won't be like soyalt 76, but like 1984 without non-anglo whites


 No.103574

>>103558

Money might grow on trees but resources are limited.


 No.103576

>>103574

The government will simply own everything and manage the entire labor force after inflating all purchasing power away from people. And then the real fun can begin.


 No.103579




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.103367[Reply]

How do you feel about the fact that we live in a cyberpunk dystopia?

5 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103451

HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

>>103446

In the final scene, if you listen in the background, you can hear a guy yell, "YEAH, CHESS, COME ON!"

4:01 in the attached, listen closely to a random voice in the background.


 No.103496

Kind of disappointed honestly. We don't even get the cool parts of cyberpunk like guns for hands or shit like that. Just run by the government and silicon valley and they try to dress this all up in a cozy look rather than a gritty one.


 No.103497

>>103390

Ah so that's where that copypasta came from.


 No.103564

>>103496

Also the aesthetic is completely shit, nothing looks as cool as it does in cyberpunk.


 No.103572

>>103496

Did you see the Gameplay demonstration? To me, it looked like it was full of the coll cyberpunk stuff, like a guy whose entire face from the upper jaw up was replaced with cybernetics. Looked breddy spuky.




File: 6ce81c7909ea468⋯.jpg (162.61 KB, 828x911, 828:911, 1551240664784.jpg)

File: 7f1497b21af89b9⋯.jpg (289.45 KB, 810x2077, 810:2077, Screenshot_20190226-235800.jpg)

File: 12c15ec9338825c⋯.png (160.42 KB, 900x900, 1:1, State_of_Liberty-Seal-1.png)

 No.98742[Reply]

There is a movement to divide Washington state and create a new state called Liberty

>Creation of new state strictly by gun rights activists

>75% of Eastern WA population supports movement, has congressional backing with multiple bills

>low tax obligations-“government doesn’t produce or own wealth—citizens do”

>”The right to manage and protect life and property will be honored at all levels of government.”

>Currently a voting contest for what the official state rifle will be

https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/split-washington-in-two-51st-state-movement-highlights-cultural-divide

https://libertystate.org

https://libertystate.org/about/grievances/

The creation of a new state is constitutional

>Article 4, Section 3 of the Constitution of the United States allows for the division of a state with a simple majority vote of the Legislature of the state and Congress:

>“New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.”

>https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-iv

Would aPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

21 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103450

File: 3df14ce0e3040d4⋯.png (611.8 KB, 800x600, 4:3, 7963c7475a70f4d354c64a786a….png)

>>103447

>a statue of Lenin somewhere in Washington

Cringe.


 No.103453

>>103388

Because reality is not an RTS.


 No.103504

I wonder how the Cascadia people would react to this?


 No.103565

>>103388

Theyre not declaring independence from the US, just washington state.


 No.103569

>>103447

New York tried to pull off a split too between NYC and not NYC, and that's gone nowhere.




File: 198823ae805aa85⋯.png (288.41 KB, 755x708, 755:708, 1560000691389.png)

 No.102888[Reply]

>Rand

Atheist Jew

>Rothbard

Atheist Jew

>Mises

Atheist Jew

>Bernstein

Atheist Jew

>Popper

Atheist Jew

>Friedman

Atheist Jew

>Ricardo

Atheist Jew

>Block

Atheist Jew

>David Friedman

Atheist Jew

>Kirzner

Son of a literal Rabbi

>Schiff

Jew

I feel like you guys are being duped and I don't even believe in the Jewish conspiracy. Something is definitely up here.

4 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102982

>>102977

>Mill

Socialist sympathies

>Spooner

Leftist anarchists admire him too


 No.103266

>>102888 (checked)

Just avoid the Jewish figures and all their works, whats so hard about that? Theyre in every single important movement, its in the DNA of the parasite to infiltrate all nutritious bodies. But their only power is the fact that you pay attention to them, their only ability is to live rent free in your head.

Just ignore them and their food goys, the wolrd becomes much more understandable and rational if you do that.


 No.103270

>>102977

/thread


 No.103566

File: d8acd5fe1a29762⋯.jpg (11.23 KB, 222x250, 111:125, whos jewing who.jpg)


 No.103571

>>102888

>Étienne de la Boétie

Roman Catholic

>Alexis de Tocqueville

Roman Catholic

>Frédéric Bastiat

Roman Catholic

>Lord Acton

Roman Catholic

>Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

Roman Catholic

>Tom Woods

Roman Catholic

>Janusz Korwin Mikke

Roman Catholic

Liberalism (in the proper sense of the word) is a very wide movement, you will find all kinds of denominations and nations within it. That is no secret. You could probably play the same game with socialism, but unlike them, the Jews within our movement are easy to detect, making it easy to filter out those aspects of their philosophies that have a Jewish slant to them, like Blocks and (early) Rothbards socially permissive attitude.




HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

 No.103133[Reply]

Will the U.S. ever declare its independence from Israel?

8 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103478

>>103449

You don't need to be aut-right to realize the disproportionate influence Israel has on foreign policy.


 No.103543

>>103478

It doesnt.


 No.103547

>>103543

It does.


 No.103553

File: 3f93a32f7d6e527⋯.webm (563.33 KB, 625x450, 25:18, wrong.webm)


 No.103562

File: b96d9b8d03e0801⋯.jpg (8.18 KB, 251x201, 251:201, wrong.jpg)




File: 5e9074d293091e0⋯.jpeg (5.26 KB, 254x199, 254:199, depression.jpeg)

 No.103319[Reply]

Welp, it's Wednesday, what inviolable freedom has the U.S. government taken away to make my life more of a nihilistic nightmare this week?

12 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103542

>>103466

I'm sure there are a few key people that legitimately have outsized influence, they know better than to be front and center in public though.


 No.103544

>>103542

Yeah but that's the problem, you won't ever find them in the first place.


 No.103546

>>103542

>I'm sure there are a few key people that legitimately have outsized influence

You're twisting what's being said here. He's saying that there's no linchpin.


 No.103549

>>103546

I know that's what he's saying. I'm disagreeing with him and saying the people that would count as lynchpins arent public figures so you wouldnt know who to go after anyway.


 No.103559

HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

>>103549

Alright "Wiseman," even if there was such a cabal, I bet you it would be structured in such a way such that even if every one of them died, their successors would pick up and nothing would happen.




File: 95e320c842ea49e⋯.png (323.34 KB, 640x427, 640:427, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.102827[Reply]

So far in the #YouTubePurge;

Banned-

YouKipper

The Great Order

Varg

Demonetised-

Martin Sellner

James Allsup

Steven Crowder

Red Ice TV

SinatraSays

Videos deleted-

Angelo John Gage

Gavin McInnes

Milo

Red Ice TV

Black Pigeon Speaks

Drunken Peasants

Press For Truth

J.F Gariepy

And many more

-

Libertarians support 1984, as long as it is 1984 achieved through private methods, not public methods. They can't be taken seriously as they have no genuine interest in *positive freedom*, ie real freedom.

105 posts and 22 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103537

>>103485

>I don't see any salt.

Everyone else does


 No.103538

>>103537

>projecting this hard

No anon, you're the jews


 No.103540

File: 625645d6fe535a1⋯.jpg (35 KB, 593x314, 593:314, dudestop.jpg)


 No.103556

>>102876

are you fucking retarded?

humans lived for thousands of years in hunter-gatherer tribes with no 'elites'


 No.103557

>>103556

>tribes didn't have chiefs, respected elders, and medicine men

And he's the retard?




File: c0b70daf4c9e853⋯.jpg (43.27 KB, 640x427, 640:427, socialistmillenia.jpg)

 No.98545[Reply]

Why has capitalism lost the ideological battle AGAINAND AGAINoh and also that other timerepeatedlythroughout historywe never seem to learn? The younger generation is now majority commie ( https://archive.is/W2jEr ). I mean, dear lord, I'm not even sure this board has a majority of capitalist posters anymore. What the fuck happened? Why can't capitalism defend itself ideologically? And how the fuck do I prepare for the breadlines under the neo-bolshevik uprising? Something more useful than "Grab SK, go inna woods" or "go workout/be stoic" pls.

99 posts and 17 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103516

>>103514

The thing is, arguments that appeal to the lowest common denominator will also apply to more intellectual bystanders.

We should fish with a net, and not a rod. Good strategy always beats good tactics.


 No.103519

>>103510

That is why I think we should always screencap good arguments, whether they are ours or from others. A good thread can easily be made into a good meme.


 No.103523

>>103519

I completely agree, we should all start doing this from now on.


 No.103548

File: 49b45872de1232e⋯.png (7.07 KB, 438x79, 438:79, midoingitrite.png)


 No.103555

File: 2ad0b1c94838ed4⋯.png (24.17 KB, 649x116, 649:116, ClipboardImage.png)

>>103548

No, because you're still using Yotsuba B like a pleb.




File: 95a43b2b9adbf67⋯.jpg (538.05 KB, 2000x1333, 2000:1333, n8cj0d.jpg)

 No.103526[Reply]

What are the best arguments for and against minarchism vs anarchism?

Meaning, should there be a state that serves an extremely limited function (power to execute murderers, defense of country) or none at all (all social functions predicated on mutual consent)?

I'm having a hard time reconciling ancap with Romans 13's apparent affirmation that some form of government is tasked by God with the responsibility to execute proven criminals, and I must recognize scripture as inerrant.

I know Romans 13 is used as just a blanket proof text for all state action and they're obviously committing eisegesis in those cases (roads, firemen).

Both of these positions are libertarian and have impressive figures on each side.

7 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103535

File: 3bf85f489155c96⋯.webm (685.62 KB, 480x360, 4:3, Be Suspicious.webm)

>>103532

Remember how we deal with them.

>>103533

>people will never want it and people's desires create society

Why are you assuming liberty has to be achieved everywhere all at once for it to be achieved at all? We're not Marxists, we don't fantasize about RISING UP all over the world to achieve some utopian pipe dream. Liberty is won through secession. Those who want liberty will secede from the state. Those who do not want it, will not.

>it's not like the State can't create any value

It can't, by definition. Value is created through voluntary transactions, because voluntary transactions are by definition mutually beneficial. The state, being borne out of coercion, can never be a product of voluntary transaction, and as a result can never create value, only destroy it.


 No.103536

>>103531

Romans 13 isn't the render unto caesar passage


 No.103539

>>103536

Well, that's my take on the Render unto Caesar passage.


 No.103541

>>103535

things have value because they're valued. The State can create things that have more value than the resources it seized.

The problem is that the thing is pretty random and also coercitive.

That said, I should have been more precise, because I didn't mean in that case that the State can create value, I meant that things that the State creates can have value.

For example a park that can be enjoyed by everyone has value and can be well-manteined. Of course it's created with seized resources, but it's not such as big a tragedy as we make it out to be.

Since people want the State, ancaps should keep study and spread ancap shit, but also help the State allocate coerced resources in a way that benefits society.

We can be autistic all we want, but the truth is that if the State spends money for a park, it's better than if it spends the money for a million-dollar consultancy on child transgenderism.

Yes, we can't know for sure which of the two is better since they'll be payed with stolen resources, but in the real world we know, and we should stop being such little shit always closed in our world that goes nowhere.

This is very important because the fact that libertarians/ancaps don't take part in politics, mean that people who don't give a shit about freedom will get more and more power, and those who give a shit won't take part in politics because there is no prize or support from ancaps/libertarians.

I mean, even Ron Paul was attacked by certain libertarians/ancaps because he wasn't "pure enough". At that point, if that's how people who understand liberty want to act, fuck them and fuck we all, we deserve to suffer.


 No.103545

File: ec714043cb37f9e⋯.jpg (44.23 KB, 750x585, 50:39, sunglasses.jpg)

>>103541

>I meant that things that the State creates can have value.

>For example a park that can be enjoyed by everyone has value and can be well-manteined. Of course it's created with seized resources, but it's not such as big a tragedy as we make it out to be.

You're forgetting the opportunity cost. Obviously the output of the state will have some sort of value to most people. But it will always be higher in price and smaller in quantity than what the unrestricted market would have done with those resources. That is what is meant when people say that the state destroys value. It is not that the state destroys value because it incompetently allocates resources; yes, it does allocate them incompetently, but that is not how it destroys value. Even if you ignore the Misesian Calculation Problem, and assume the state is somehow capable of allocating resources just as effectively as the market, it still destroys value, because value is created by voluntary transactions. In a voluntary transaction both parties are better off after the transaction than they were before. Even if its output was of the utmost quality, it must still be said that the state destroys value because it destroys voluntary transactions, not just through coercion, but by the opportunity cost of the voluntary transactions that would have taken place had the state not intervened.

You are correct in that the state's outputs are not completely worthless, and some forms of output are obviously less worthless than others, particularly if they move in the direction of undoing previous coercion. But I believe you're underestimating just how damaging state intervention truly is.

>but in the real world we know, and we should stop being such little shit always closed in our world that goes nowhere.

Does anyone actually do this? The very fact that we're discussing our frustrations on a Canadian cave painting website instead of quietly fuming is already in itself a political interaction. Places like the Mises Institute do a fair bit to get more people interested in liberty, and issue-oriented lobby groups like the GOA or thPost too long. Click here to view the full text.




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.103480[Reply]

How can people be such slaves to work 9 hours per day for 40 years? Just count the amount of hours you are losing for slavery.

I don't even think of wagecucks as of humans, you are robots, slaves, ants, without brain or consciousness.

Not a single free men would allow something like this, he would prefer to make a revolution and kill those who enslave him, or even die during revolution, than to be such slave like wagecucks are.

There is so much wealth and factories in the world, that we all could work two days per week and still have houses, food, fun. But for now that wealth is in hands of your owners, lords. We have feudalism.

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103498


 No.103507

How is working slavery? Just leave if you don't like it.

<inb4 "IF I DONT WORK I DIE".

Yeah no shit, if animals don't 'wagecuck' for their food, they die too. This is reality.


 No.103509

>>103507

BORN 2 SHIT

FORCED 2 WIPE


 No.103512

>>103489

Listen to this advice please.


 No.103534

>>103480

that's because the market is less free than has ever be in the last 150 years.

Not only we're full of regulation and taxes, but the State now is efficient enough in applying them while in the past you could easily escape most of the State's bullshit and taxes, as long as you didn't con everybody, the State would let you whatever you wanted.

I agree we're in neofeudalism. We've a class of billionaries, often in cahoot with the State, that lives above the rules or writes them. Very bad.




File: 284feecaa1194f6⋯.jpg (140.78 KB, 891x597, 297:199, 1561296321726.jpg)

 No.103487[Reply]

I need the ten most important books on right libertarianism. I don't have time for the long ass redundant charts.

8 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103515

File: 837c9a98440bd33⋯.jpg (89.55 KB, 1200x677, 1200:677, Cqu6qCWWYAEc72Y.jpg)

>>103511

Spontaneous order is pretty good. It's simple and interesting.


 No.103520

>>103487

>For a New Liberty

>The Ethics of Liberty

>Democracy, the God that Failed

>Human Action OR Man, Economy and State with Power and Market

>The Law

>Economics in One Lesson

>The Myth of National Defense

>Choice

>The Problem of Political Authority

>The Road to Serfdom

I'd say if you read these ten books, you know as much about libertarianism as most libertarians. Although Human Action is easily as long as three or four books, and MES is even longer. I don't know what exactly you want, if you just want a crash course, then you can remove the longer economic treatise, or you can keep it and remove Choice and Economics in One Lesson.

I've read all of these books (except MES, still on that), and like ten or twenty more, but I don't think I'm representative for libertarians more broadly. We are a wellread bunch but if you just read ten, no libertarian, I think, wil be able, in good conscience, to tell you to just read a book.


 No.103521

>>103520

To be fair, you don't really need to read a lot of books to be a libertarian. It's a simple enough ideology.


 No.103524

File: 858fa4cb20b7965⋯.png (1.13 MB, 1285x3475, 257:695, Why ancaps win arguments.png)

>>103521

Pretty much. Pic related explains all you really need to know about the basics.


 No.103525

>>103520

I can find all of them besides choice. Who is the author?




File: e24a305bc865c86⋯.jpg (453.9 KB, 1800x1350, 4:3, Yangzi_River_-_by_Peter_Mo….jpg)

 No.103165[Reply]

is muslim banking better than our current system if it has no fractional reserve?

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.103175

>>103166

tell me more about "european banking"


 No.103176

>>103175

""""""""""""""I am genuinely curious about what you mean by this.""""""""""""""


 No.103195

>>103166

are jewish usurers part of european banking? because they were part of europe from the begining

just see "the merchant of venice"


 No.103518

File: e7453df88c41cd5⋯.jpg (400.83 KB, 2048x2048, 1:1, Smileebladee.jpg)

>>103165

i have no clue how the antikike kikes bank but ill go ahead and say two things; 1. i know it has led to quasi ancap ideals, so thats cool in some sense. and 2. our banking is absolute trash anyway so if you can make the case for our banking being worse than another then its almost certainly due to the central banks that have been installed by governments a long time ago. but id need a reason to give a fuck to look and see if they're doing anything close to right


 No.103522

>>103518

>i know it has led to quasi ancap ideals

Explain.




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